Reply with quote #76
fun and real person.........
my dad is the N
my mom is the alcholic enabler.
my inlaws are N's and i am in
a strained marriage.
therapy 4 yrs,
meds for dop & anx
Reply with quote #77
Reply with quote #78
Merry Christmas! I so related to Stephanie's post! I'm so glad I found this group! My brother and sister are mentally delayed and live with my Nmom. I paid for most of my dad's funeral, he was a vet, never saw war. He was schizophrenic. He's been gone 2 yrs this month. I grew up in a controlling abusive church. When my first husband died, I received an insurance check, which the church had me sign over because they were afraid it would be taxed? They took MY money and raised someone else's child with it! I have a bipolar, autistic, mentally delayed daughter with my husband. I remarried, while still grieving, we are now separated 6 yrs this month, my choice. I'm bipolar. the pastor's wife of that church told my current I was crazy! Wow, that sure shows Christ's love! My first hubby is in heaven along with my son whom I miscarried a week before my bday in 94. I've always felt that no one wanted me! I'm 51 and I'll never hear the words I love you from my mom ever again, or my sis. Plz contact me at my email as I have learning disabilities and won't find this thread again. Thank you for reading my post, I pray everyone has a great Christmas and New Years! Love Debbie
Reply with quote #79
the battle of the tree and dinner was more like a skirmish and the battle of breakfast was postponed to lunch since one side forgot to show for the battle. the battle for christmas mass at church was dragged out till all ammunition was spent and both parties were reduced to flinging spent shell casings across the lines. luckily the opposing side was momentarily distracted by "its a wounder-full life" and i could scrounge for some re-loads and repairs to the battlements just in time to continue the battle until a unofficial truce was filed just in time for the tree turds to be passed in a less threatening sequence only when it was preceded by the dinner skirmish. i do hope that you (who read this) are having a PEACE-FULL christmas. if not i do have a spar helmet. me: translation; i had a normal holiday with my mother and i hope every one else is having a quieter, more peace-full and fun filled holiday season then me. my ex-gf: Wow had i not been up there to pick nat up i would have be completely clueless to what u said, lol. this is what i posted on facebook back on saturday. ya thats right christmas night. only just the best time to pick a fight about money witch leads to reminding me about every thing i have ever done wrong and comparing me to everyone that has ever "made something of them selves". i should point out that all most all of them were college masters or had phd's and almost all of them are DEAD!!! i have figured out that mom is narcissist some what but there are other things that point in the opposite direction. she never misses a chance to remind me of my past mistakes and to compare me to others that she has known, mostly before i was borne, that were mean to her and what they were like as well. mostly she makes them out to be just like me or better. narcs, from what i understand, only focus on the hear and now not every little peace of history. another constant is that she seams to pick the one time i have no time and wants to teach me something and if i try to stick to my to do list she starts fussing that i never am going to learn anything. but if i say anything at all that is not what she has in her head for a response then its an instant screaming match. like now at 71 she has decided that "i should teach you how to cook before there is no one around to show you how." ( i should counter that at this point i am 35 and learned how to cook from boy scouts, my friends, cousins , ex-mother-in-law and now my ex-girlfriend, who works as a chef . hell, at this point she has taught my 6 year old daughter more about cooking them she has me. ) the only defense i have learned over the years is to out scream her and verbally hammer just as hard or harder as she does. the back lash is that she points out how she has been " embarrassed " to tell her "friends", aka every one she talks to, of "how horrible her son treats his mother" and if i give no reaction she will start bring it up every time she starts to brag, or gloat, depending on opinions, about something so i am given the impression that she is happy she did it and can't understand why i would be so up set that she was talking about me with her friends then complains to me that her friends don't want to come around if i am. she will say she wants to "communicate" or "have a discussion" and proceeds to speak her thoughts. however if i start to say anything at all she starts getting defensive and demands that i do not speak until she is done. however she will leave the room as soon as she is done and if i try to continue with my side of the conversation she gets hostile and starts the fight. several times i refused to back down until she gave me a reason i was not allowed to have a say in her "discussions" to witch she very calmly and straight forwardly has answered, and has never missed a chance to remind me during a fight, that my voice was "to harsh" on her ears and it runs her blood pressure up and if i keep it up, simple talking not just fighting, i will be the cause of her hart attack and that i should be happy about it. what scars me is that when i get upset with my daughter i start to see some of her in me and i don't want that. my ex-girlfriend said i need to change who i am and believe me i would love to, but how do i do that. we, my ex-gf and i, are now best of friends but i am afraid that what we had together is going to stay that way, had, because of what i was raised to be. she has read up on some of the traits of acon's and says that she now understands why i am so good at being a jack-of-all- triads. i am starting to understand what she means. honestly, i and a few friends find it amazing that i'm not a full on drunk by now.
Reply with quote #80
I cannot comment on being a ACON, but my husband is. So much of what you are doing to heal. he is doing as well. It is so difficult to watch a spouse go through this, and sometimes hard to understand as well.He doesn't see a therapist, but I do. I think he could use it, but he won't go. NM can destroy a marriage. I can relate to Tanya a lot. I will not put up with his behavior( a lot is learned from what his mother did to him). I tell him to fix it, or I'm gone. As long as he is willing to work on himself, and understand what she is, and not let her control him, or any of my family, it will work. It is a slow process, the healing and changing his behavior. Sometimes it is one step forward, two steps back. But he truly wants us to work, and wants to work on himself as well.This is very important.It is very hard for both of us.
I commend all who are going through this, for the life you have lived, the abuse you have endured; has been so very hard.You are all wonderful caring people who have survived a childhood you didn't deserve. May you all find peace, love, and happiness in your lives.You all deserve it.
Reply with quote #81
Wow..have spent the past 4 hours going through this thread and am just taking it all in before I share my stories of being a daughter of narcissistic parents...it is pretty gruesome..but now know that I am not alone
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I just recently had a major falling out with my N mother when she came to visit me. I wound up yelling at her and we are no longer speaking, yet she is posting loving pictures of her and my other siblings on Facebook and telling everyone in my family that I am evil and mean. I have lived in another state for over ten years and I cannot understand why I am surprised that this happened and why I am so upset and obsessing. I know that she doesn't get that she did anything wrong, she will never understand how selfish she is, or get help for her obvious substance abuse problem. I have been searching sites like this to try and figure out some first steps to move on with MY life. Although these posts are positive, they seem very vague. If I knew how to just love myself I would have done it already. I know all about narcissists but that doesn't help me know what to do with myself so I am not living my life in guilt and trying to be perfect and please others so they will love me. I would like to have a loving relationship with my husband but I hold back because I really do not trust anyone. How do I begin to move on??
Reply with quote #83
It's a bit of a process and I think it is different for everybody.
You need to make some time for yourself for sure. You may want to consider counseling to get through some of what you are going through
It sounds like you have taken a big step just by realizing that you have to stop living in guilt and trying to please others.
One thing that has helped me is realizing that healthy relationships are not one sided. Each person must care for the well being of the other. If you are in a relationship with somebody who expects you to believe that only thei needs matter, then you have every right to back away from that relationship!
Letting go of the guilt is a challnge and it does take time.
Each of us who has a narcissist in their life has to determin how bad their narcissism is and how much we need to distance ourselves.
Many people here believe that it is a mistake to ever engage a narcissist. I disagree with that belief.
I think we need to be very careful about when and how we confont our n's . And I believe it must be done very sparingly. In some cases, not at all. But in other cases, I do believe it is helpful for the a on to get things out in the open.
I do caution that when you do confront, you do NOT expect them to "get it". Sometimes the only purpose is to make you feel better about not having kept everything inside and having never stood up for yourself. (Sorry for my grammar).
Everybody has the right to stick up for themselves, as long as they do it in a way that is not spiteful or cruel.
Don't feel bad that you spoke your mind. Now just figure out what your priorities are and what kind of person you want to be. Then start working on being that person, first learn to trust yourself. Then you can work on trusting your husband. Remind yourself often that not everybody is like the n's in your life. Take it slow.
Reply with quote #84
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Hi guys-I hope I am posting in right place. I have read though this thread all evening and just want to let you know that you all come across as lovely, honest and giving people. I feel I will be welcome to join in-so I will if thats ok?
I have just discovered (to my shock and absolute horror) that my mother is N. It has been alot to take in. As I said to my husband, I feel like me whole life has just turned upside down-and I now know what that actually means. Everything is a bit surreal. Memories are flooding in and I am looking at everything from a different view point and suddenly everything is different. I dont (or until the last 24 hours) recall much from my childhood and I remember being told that it was a sign of suppression and that it can't have been too happy. Makes sense now. Can anyone let me know what they first did when they figured out the respective parent was N? I am not going to go confront her, much as I want to, I can see that would be pointless. I have already begun limited contact-did all this before I realised what exactly was the matter, so I knew there was something wrong. But I live next door so limited contact will be more difficult in my case. Until a few months ago I also worked for her, have one for almost 5 years and while it has been the financial ruination of my family, I knew if I stayed a minute longer I could end up very very ill. She was making me crazy. So a question re limited contact-do you do this on basis that they know why there is limited contact or did you not tell them you knew and pretend to have excuses to not visit? Should I tell my brother? He is not a "golden child" but he's not a scape goat either-however my mother allowed my other brother to abuse this sibling all his life-I believe this brother is also N. He was and is cruel and sadistic and it deeply affected my brother growing up-as it did me, though abuse wasn't as bad for me. However I got the raw end from my mother compared to this brother. Look, see what I am doing? Competition. Ggggrrrr. I am finding it hard to just turn off all these twisted games and emotions. The point is, my brother is living with her with his family and while I have already told them it is toxic and should not stay, if I was to talk to him about her being N, maybe he might think about moving out more seriously. It is affecting his relationship with his wife already. Should I go straight into therapy? What should I look for in a therapist? Basically, what was your experiences immediately after you figured out parent was N. Oh and I do appreciate this thread is already about that but there is no time frame-which is understandable and I guess I cant think too far ahead at moment as dont know how I will deal with 2moro let alone a year or 2 down the road. Thanks so much and sorry for rambling!
Reply with quote #86
Hi Sad Charlie,
I have not posted here for a long while, but reading your mail reminded me of when I was in a very similar position to you, when I realized, from reading posts on this site, that my mother was an 'N'. Some good few years have passed now, and my mother is still an 'N' but I am getting more and more emotional detached from her and she is losing her power and control over me. I do not have the misfortune of living next-door to her, but that is what she would have wished for me. I realized early on that I had to move away physically and have lived 300 miles away since I was 19 years old..and I am now in my mid 60s...and mother is 99 years old, and still likes to be in control if she gets the chance! Firstly I would recommend that you do find a counseller, one that has experience of narcissistic behaviour. This would give you a regular time and space to talk, to vent, to understand the complexity of being a child of an N. When I was at your stage I can only describe my thoughts, feelings and emotions as being in a tangled mess. Now, after 7 years of therapy I can see the light..the bits of the jigsaw puzzle are falling into place and I feel better than I have for years. 'N's don't change much, and it is very hard to trust them....but with time .. and with the right validation from professionals, family, friends one begins to trust themselves and trust one's intuition. The 'boundaries' we read about become more and more natural to us.. I wish you the very very best, and am so glad you have found this site. It was a life-saver for me..and the start of an incredible journey of self-discovery...and dare I say it...'freedom'.
Reply with quote #87
Welcome, sadcharlie, and I'm sorry you're sad. I'll start off by admitting i don't have an N parent--my N is my older brother--but until others chime in with their first hand experience, and based on what I've learned here, here's my advice:
Therapy: YES. Tell your mother about your boundaries: I would say no, as she might see that as a challenge to her to try to break them. And as others will tell you, the boundaries are not on HER behavior, as you can't control that; they are on YOUR behavior, as in what you decide you are willing to endure, and what you will do if someone crosses your lines. You're the one who has to maintain the boundaries; your N will always try to smash through them. Telling your brother: That's hard, as he sounds like a victim as well. But he's also a victim directly under Nmom's thumb, and out of self-preservation may share anything you say with her. She's certainly try to get any information about you from him she can. That's something to keep in mind when you share anything with him. Your Nmom will use anything as a weapon to get you back in line when she senses you're trying to erect boundaries against her. Finally, HOORAY FOR YOU! It really really stinks that you're in this situation, but it's great that you've figured out what Nmom is, and now you can find support and answers to help make things better for you and your family. I figured out my brother was an N inadverdently when I came here for help with my parents' issues. What an eye-opener! And how great to finally know, "I'm not the crazy one, HE is!"
Reply with quote #88
Hi sadCharlie. I'm glad that you found this forum. There are many understanding people here who have experienced situations similar to yours. I'm sorry that childhood for you and your brother was so bad.
My mother is an N. My dad was her enabler. My older sister is an N; and my younger sister is an enabling "bystander" or N-sympathizer. My realization of Nmom being that way came a bit at a time. It jelled in my brain after reading a book that described N-behavior. I lived about 200 miles away from her, so it was easy to somewhat reduce contact. I didn't have a chance to tell her and my older Nsis to back off and leave me alone until they did something egregious---and I explained in a letter to each of them that their egregious act was the final straw---and I wanted no further phone calls and letters/emails from them. Even after that, my Nmom tried to call a few times. Be aware that the fangs and claws really come out when you attempt to reduce or to even stop contact with N's. They feel they own you and have a right to use and abuse you. They will try everything---every rotten trick---to get you back into serving them and giving them attention. It is a good thing that you are seeking therapy; you will need a trusted counselor or therapist; and emotional support. I just want to encourage you that you are taking a big step towards a healthier, happier life. It is a good thing to eliminate abusive people from our lives---even when those people are related by DNA. Keep coming back here; check in and let us know how things are going. This is also a good place to vent when the going gets rough. Here's best wishes for you---for success in all ways including new boundaries, healing, and a happier life.
Reply with quote #89
Thanks both of you for replying. I will take what you have said into consideration going forward. I discovered this yesterday and today I was trying to figure out my DAds role in this and it is looking likely he is also N or he projected N tendencies as he is incredibly conceited, always argumentative, yet didn't treat me personally the same way as Nmom. However he allowed all of the abuse that would have been obvious to all to continue. So possibly both parents are N,s plus my brother. He also lives next door. I feel very trapped here now and can see it was very orchestrated. Even the family business, I think was set up only as a means of employing us in order to control not for any other reason. Sounds crazy to voice that but it that's what my gut is saying.
So I cried all day and then had sense to call my DR who has referred me to abuse clinic. Might wait about a month before I get an assessment but its a start.
I feel very overwhelmed today and knowing I might be waiting so long is worrying me.
I can't avoid them for that long, nor will I be able to pretend everything is ok in the mean time. Any advice or thoughts? So glad I found this place xx
Reply with quote #90
sad Charlie, have you visited the "Out of The Fog" website, yet? They are a valuable and resource in learning all about the N's and N-family dynamics. Also other kinds of personality disorders are dealth with.
They have a lot of helpful information. Meanwhile, listen to your gut. Is it the abuse clinic that has a month-long wait time to get you in to see them---or are you wanting to wait a while before getting the assessment (I wasn't sure what you meant). Do you own the home you live in? Do you rent? Can you find a way to live elsewhere and put some physical distance between yourself and your abusive family members? I hope others here will offer advice, as well. I can only tell you that in my experience, I had to pretend that everything was just as usual between myself and my Nmom, Nsis and "minion" sis. I had to "go along to get along" for a long time before I was finally able to cut the cord with my family. However, my family was financiallly and emotionally abusive---they weren't an imminent danger to my mental health and living arrangement. If you feel like they are a threat to your emotional health or life, can you move in with a friend, short term---or is there an abused women's shelter in your area?