| Amien |
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Reply with quote | #1 |
I'm reading a reviewer copy of a new book "Freeing Yourself from the Narcissist in Your Life" by Linda Martinez-Lewi PhD. I'd like to quote a section that really struck home with me:
"These (narcissistic) parents have cold and ruthless relationships with their children, based on manipulation not love and respect. Although these parents are often attentive to the physical needs of their children, they fail to respond to them emotionally. A narcissistic parent is incapable of empathy, the ability to understand or care about how someone else is feeling. The focus of the narcissist is selfish and insular. A life dedicated exclusively to self cannot encompass a genuine love of one's children. To become solid and whole, a child must be cherished for himself alone, for his precious individuality."...
And:
"The (narcissistic) parent who lacks empathy may provide every earthly advantage and fail his child completely. This parental relationship is not based on any real closeness but on a cold embrace. For some of these parents, rearing children is like a business arrangement. The child is never understood or appreciated for his own sake. He cannot got to his mother or father for comfort or emotional support. He is valued or demeaned, depending on how brilliantly he performs. The child is controlled by the parent puppeteer, who expertly moves the strings to satisfy HIS OWN thristy ego. An essential part of the cold embrace involves the exploitation and manipulation of the child. Though the narcissistic parent may appear to be devoted, he thinks only of himself. He sacrifices his child on the altar of fulfilling his own needs."
This in a nutshell is my own self-absorbed mother.
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| Kathy | |
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Reply with quote | #3 |
"He is valued or demeaned, depending on how brilliantly he performs."
Imagine if the child catches on early and refuses to play. That is the disgarded child.
The child that does cooperate better stay in line.
Sometimes children of N's stick together and rebel. I have seen this happen, and the N parent(s) lose their power. They keep their manipulation going by playing family members against each other. If they don't have that control, they are severely handicapped. The N's think the kids are "bad" and ungrateful, and that they have failed, even if they grow into strong successful adults. The N only sees success as what they choose to be correct, which is often a very narrow view. Everything else is an affront to them.
My parents told us what hobbies, interests, careers, lifestyle was suitable and acceptable. They always reflected their own interests. Anything else and you were considered not a good person, cruel, not worthy of love. Yet if you did what they chose you were still criticized.
I'm glad that I'm unable to completely wrap my brain around this issue, it'd be scary to truly look into the mind of a narcissist.
gg
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| M |
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Yep that sounds like my Grandma....
Every story that my Grandmother tells revolves around her, when she talks about my Mom as a child it always is about how someone complimented my Grandmother on what a talented child she had.
It would love more than anything for my Grandmother to tell me stories about my Mom that were not just about her. It would be nice to hear about things my mom did when I was a baby or a small child or did my mom ever talk to my Grandmother about me. Things that it would be nice to me to hear since my mother is no longer here..
IF anyone in my family does anything successful my GM takes credit for it. She claims she taught my brother how to talk in a weekend of babysitting. That my cousin has her talent for music etc. It all goes back to her. She is the queen and must be praised.
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| Cleofet |
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Please, Please, Please if the thought of taking in your N mother or father ever crosses your mind "STOP." You will grow old and tired trying to make them happy in their old age and they will hate you for it anyway. I speak from experience that is ongoing. You will never have the number 10 parent you dream of and you will be endangering your relationship with your spouse and other family members. I love my mother but I do not like her at all. She is mean to everyone but especially to her children the ones she should love the most. She is bitter and always has been and now that she is 84 and living with my husband and I she has gotten so much worse. It has been 1 and 1/2 years of nothing but negativity all the time. I am in the process of trying to figure out how to approach the subject of her moving back to Philadelphia were she says she wants to be. Problem is, and there are many, is that at this point in time she is undergoing treatment for non-hodgkins lymphoma small b-cell with Rituxin (Chemo but none of the side effects) and probably will be for about 6 more months. This past Sunday she fell and fractured her right arm. This is the side that she holds her cane with because of a right hip that needs to be replaced. I know this may sould mean to some but if you have a narsisitic parent then you have some idea of why I am talking like this. Some people say oh I wish I still had my mother I would do everything for her because she raised me. They surley didn't have a mother like mine. Anyway just know that a narsisitic person will not change especially when they get old. Take care all and God bless. |
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| EmmieK |
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Reply with quote | #6 |
"The child is never understood or appreciated for his own sake. He cannot got to his mother or father for comfort or emotional support. He is valued or demeaned, depending on how brilliantly he performs."
Tell me about it.
The math homework that she stood over, for hours, while I redid it to make it neat enough for her...in my rough workbook. The reports where one C among the mostly As and Bs would get dragged up as evidence that I was no good. The times she'd publicly fix my hair because I hadn't combed it in, oh...a whole five minutes. The way she pulled up my lip to show those dumb relatives of mine, who as far as she was concerned were blind for not noticing, what wonky teeth I had. The time I bought a dress for a family party and she didn't like it, and screamed at me until I cried, then screamed at me some more until I took it back to the store. The fact that she thought every other person in the world was 'too kind' to me for not pointing out all my many faults the way she did. And the constant barrage of "You don't have any friends because you don't take trouble over the way you look....I wish you were more like.....You could be so lovely, so nice, so pretty...if...."
The dawning truth that I was blessed with a mother who put her overwhelming concern for appearances before anyone's feelings. Including her own daughter's.
When I actually realized that there were people in this world who would love me as I am, I think I actually cried with relief.
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| Kathy |
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Reply with quote | #7 |
EmmieK,
When you mentioned "wonky teeth" in you post, I was immediately reminded of my first grade school pictures. When I brought home my school pictures and proudly showed them to my mother, she said, "Never smile when you have your pictures made because your teeth are ugly with that big gap in the middle!" (Even now, I can still hear her hurtful words.)
I went all through school and never smiled in my school pictures again and in fact, I became terribly camera shy! I always looked like a 'possum caught in head lights in photos!
When my husband and I married (we eloped on my 20th birthday) he was making pictures of me and said, "Smile and show your dimples!" Of course, I said, "No, I don't want that big gap between my front teeth to show!" My husband said, "What gap?" I began to point and describe what terrible teeth I had and he said, "There is no gap between your teeth...go look in the mirror!" I looked in the mirror and guess what.....no gap! All those years between 6 years old and 20 years old and I never noticed that my "big gap" had closed on it's own at some point.
My very first trip to the dentist was when I was 20 years old and married. If my mother was all that concerned about my ugly smile, you'd think they would have taken me to the dentist at some point in my childhood...wouldn't you?
It's amazing how N. cruel parents can be and how much one statement can influence children for the rest of their lives. Sticks and stones may break bones...but hurtful words can be devastating to a child!
That was not the only cruel thing my mother did or said to me over the years. Here it is.....48 years later and I still remember my mother's words about my teeth.
I've said it before and I'll sat it again.... my parents were made for each other! LOL
~Kathy~
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| dsmyre | |
| Avis |
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Kathy -- Childhood pictures...when I was in kindergarten the photographer told me to "smile Princess". (I suppose he told every little girl the same thing, but I didn't know that and thought it was just for me.) The picture taken that year was one of pure joy and something I held onto from then and thru many many hard and emotionally dry years.
My sister was diagnosed with mental illness when I was eight -- she was 19 -- and no other children in that large gap. My sister has had a multitude of diagnosis with every imaginable treatment to every sort of professional and faith healer along the way. Today she is 62 and dying of lung cancer. I tried to be the ideal child especially during my sister's most diffiicult times. Looking back now I realize that the times I really excelled academically were when my parents' attention was focused wholly on my sister.
My time as the obedient daughter ended when I turned 18. Although I certainly could have been way more rebellious than I was, it was on that day of my 18th birthday that I convinced myself that it was no longer a mortal sin to disobey my parents. Boy did they freak out. No longer able to control me -- oh me oh my!
I wish that my sister had more happiness in her life. Her daughter (Now 31) is a pleasure with a good head on her shoulders. But happiness isn't something that either her daughter or I can make for her. I told my sister not too long ago that I recognized that she helped make the road easier for me because I could see many of the parental hazards that she had dealt with and therefore made it easier for me.
Anyway, I know I'm rambling. Most of all I hope that from the mistakes and over-controlling of my parents that Hertz and I have learned how to not repeat many of the same mistakes with Budget. Although I'm sure we're creating some new ones -- after all, Budget will need to have some aggravations in his life, don't you think?
Avis
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| Laine |
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Reply with quote | #10 |
Ahhh...yes...
Unfortunately, I'm one of those that has mom living with us. She is a classic N-mom, for sure.
And I relate to what someone said about the stories always being told revolving around her. I hear about how people used to tell my mom how well-behaved I was, and how good she had done in raising me, since I did well in school. It was all about praise to her. When my life started to be less influenced by her, she started to manipulate me more. When I stayed away from home, while in college, she would call me and say that someone had called the house, saying "momma, momma" and she was worried that something was wrong with me. If I didn't call her every day, while away, the story was worse, about how she worried. Not until later, did it occur to me that she could have called ME. I feel sorta stupid about not realizing that now, but I was really caught up in it all.
And looking back now, i would have never have made some of the decisions I did, and we would not all be living together in this situation. I would have left her to her own devices and let someone else deal with it. And not care at all what few family members we have left would think. I get so frustrated with people and that mindset of "oh she's your mother, she gave birth to you" Some just don't want to think that it could be that bad.
Just a couple of weeks ago my mom told me twice that she wished she'd never met my father, then she wouldn't be in the situation she is in now (living with us I guess). Believe me, sometimes I wish she'd thought twice about it too!
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| Carys |
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Avis, that is an interesting story, particularly the correlation between your sister's wellbeing and your own. I think you are implying that when your parents focused on your sister it was positive attention and that you were none the worse for this deviation from the norm. I, for one, have learned something from this: That sometimes the "normal" or "favored" child (or the child who has the least problems) actually welcomes the spotlight being shone on one of his other siblings now and then. The pressures are off, maybe, and the "good" child is given a reprieve from trying to be the end-all?
That was a touching story of the photographer's words to you when you were a little girl ("Smile, Princess.") It would be a perfect name for the book you write some day, don't you think? 
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| Carys |
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Reply with quote | #12 |
Avis, I wanted to clarify my question/interpretation of what you wrote: Are you saying that it was during the times your sister received your parents' exclusive attentions when you felt the most freedom to accomplish, excel, succeed?
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| Kathy |
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Reply with quote | #13 |
Avis,
I often say that my parents taught me how not to be with my own child! I actually made parenting a lot more difficult than it had to be just so I could show my parents exactly how it should be done! They failed at parenting, so I had to excell.
My first rebellion was when my husband and I eloped. My dad staggered around the house, holding his heart and making dire predictions about my marriage and my future. Looking back now, I don't know how I mustered up the courage to stand up to my dad and walk out the door that night.
I knew that my dad would never allow me to leave and would forbid me from getting married, I would never have the courage to disobey him. I had to make my planned elopement a secret mission and strike when he least expected it.
I had two little chihuahuas at home when I moved out that night. I ask my dad if he would allow them to stay there until next pay day and hubby and I could pay a pet deposit at our apartment. My dad refused my phone calls all week and when I paid the pet deposit the following Friday and went to pick up my dogs, my dad had taken them to be euthanized to punish me for my rebellion.
My dad knew exactly how to get even with me and what would hurt me the most. The night I eloped, I broke free of my leash, but there was dire consequences to pay. In essence, my dad showed me that my rebellion cost my dogs their lives.
I wish I had rebelled more times in my life instead of alwys being the obedient daughter. Maybe, I would not have to be pulling against that darn leash so much now.
~Kathy~
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| dsmyre |
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Reply with quote | #14 |
Oh Kathy, that is heart-breaking!!!! Your dad was down-right cruel not only to you but to your dogs. I would understand if you had never spoken to him again after what he did to your dogs!!! |
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| Amien |
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Reply with quote | #15 |
Kathy, your father has been a monster to you. His heartless killing of your dogs can only be interpreted as an attempt to wound you very deeply. I'm sure he succeeded; what a terrible blow. I am so concerned by the amount of abuse your father and mother repeatedly placed upon you. It only compounds the burden you have had in being responsible for their well-being and care, in such a dysfunctional family environment.
My mother killed (I won't use more polite word) our dog without warning. I would visit every weekend. One day I came home and the dog was GONE. He was "my" dog and we had owned him for 10 years; he was a gentle no maintenance pet. I was heartsick and stunned that she would decide it was time to put the dog to sleep, for no grounds, and simply went to do it one day without discussion. Today, just remembering it gives me pause. It was like a knife in the heart.
Years later, my parents were "pet sitting" our son's small no-maintenance adorable dog while we were on vacation. Two days into the trip, my mom called to say the dog was "sick", saying he was vomiting and eating carpet fringe. As I pressed her, she said she had put out poison in the kitchen and hallway "to kill insects" in her always spotless house. I realized she had tried to poison the dog, consciously or unconsciously. The dog was quite ill, but survived. She never dog sat again; I found a professional sitter and my parents never asked why I did so. We did try one more time several years later, and my mom had one of her worst "bad behavior episodes" the night before we left for vacation, clearly intending to sabatoge our trip. Only through quick thinking were we able to salvage this prepaid vacation by finding an alternate dogsitter. Her actual "bad behavior episode" itself caused me to stop all contact with my parents and give hard thought to our future relationship. She never apologized for the "BB episode", or for nearly ruining our vacation.
You can never underestimate the degree of truly terrible behavior a narcissistic parent is willing to inflict upon their otherwise dutiful daughters. The possible level of hateful actions is astounding. They have no empathy or compassion. And you will note, that at our happiest moments, our milestone achievements, narcissistic parents will do their damnest to deflect that attention to themselves and/or to destroy that joyful moment.
Both my parents inflicted their many narcissistically-defined demands upon how my wedding and reception must be, and somehow DH and I wound up paying for nearly all of our wedding even though my parents claim they did. They jointly had a "bad behavior episode" one month before the wedding, where they stated either all their demands would be met or they wouldn't attend the wedding. I should have said, fine; instead I once again I capitulated and complied with their various inappropriate and silly demands. And they stilled overwhelmed my wedding day with their needs. It was as if I was a bystander to my own wedding.
Kathy, I sometimes see my future in your many postings about caring for your parents.
To quote from that same book:
"The narcissistic mother or father conducts himself as a dictator, without a conscience, immune to any outside authority. From the time they are very little, these children become experts at catering to the idiosyncractic needs of the narcissistic parents."
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