| Avis |
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Reply with quote | #16 |
Oh Kathy! Once more I feel the need the to throttle your father!! Oh awful. You are a VERY brave woman and you broke free of a very powerful chokehold. Your father definitely had a cruel streak. I wish I had a medal to give you for your bravery and could arrange a ceremony in the Rose Garden of the White House (that would seem to be the appropriate place...think about all the thorns that are there and yet the fragrance and the beauty inspite of it).
Your know the dire predictions that your father had for your marriage not only did not come true, but what he was predicting was his own lousy relationship. He did not know how he could survive without you and he thought that all relationships had to be identical to his own. What parents often fail to realize is that relationship dynamics are all different and although we might repeat some of the stories or themes from our parents relationships, we are not condemned to relive them. Indeed, if we can face our parents' dysfunction (at least in our own minds) then I think we have the best chance of not repeating it.
Carys -- what I meant was that my parents focusing on my sister did two things: It added to her dysfunction and it both allowed me to "shine" (to make them proud, I think) and also made me feel that was the only thing a "good" girl should do. Unconditional love? A concept foreign to my parents. I tried to do EVERYTHING 180 degrees differently from my sister: she took Spanish, I took French; (one ridiculous example). And yet, when I came to the age that she was when she had her breakdown, I found myself on eerily familiar territory. The thing that we both had hugely in common was two parents who were scared to death that their children were growing up. I broke free too, like Kathy, not with all of the dire consequences that Kathy had, but enough of my own. It's too bad that all parents cannot understand that their job is to make their children into mature, independent adults and that putting themselves "out of a job" they have done the best job imaginable. Besides, there are always GRANDchildren to look forward to.
I think one of the most Gi-Normous lessons I got out of childhood is this...the child that is indulged and coddled (i.e., the Golden Child) who is often the one resented by the other siblings or cousins or neighbors, etc. is NOT the one who actually ends up ahead of the game of life. Because the preponderance of our lives is not spent in the cocoon of an indulged bubble. But the child who is respected, loved for herself and allowed to grow in the direction of HER talents (not those that her parents wish upon her vicariously), this seems to be a rare bird indeed. And that oppressed child who manages to break free, that is the bird that truly soars to infinity and beyond.
Thanks too for the suggestion of a title: "Smile Princess"...that's very sweet. If I do write my book someday, I think I'll use that -- and if I do, please look in the acknowledgements until you find your name.
Love,
Avis
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| dsmyre |
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Reply with quote | #17 |
Dear Amien and Kathy,
My heart goes out to you both. The mental and emotional abuse you have lived thru is amazing. That has to be as bad or worse than physical abuse. And the pet killing/poisoning, etc is just plain sick beyond words. I really hope that you can put these demented parents out of your lives as best you can.
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| Molly-Tx |
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Reply with quote | #18 |
Joke:
One bright, beautiful Sunday morning, everyone in tiny Anytown got up early and went to the local church. Before the service started, the townspeople were sitting in their pews and talking about their lives, their families, and so on.
Suddenly, Satan appeared at the front of the church.
Everyone started screaming and running for the front entrance, trampling each other in a frantic effort to get away from evil incarnate. Soon everyone had left the church
except for an elderly gentleman who sat calmly in his pew, not moving, seemingly
oblivious to the fact that God's ultimate enemy was in his presence.
Now, this confused Satan a bit, so he walked up to the man and said, "Hey ! Don't you know who I am?"
The man replied, "Yep, Sure do."
Satan asked, "Aren't you afraid of me?"
"Nope, sure ain't" said the man.
Satan was a little perturbed at this and queried, "Why aren't you afraid of me?"
The man calmly replied, "I've been married to your sister for 25 years." |
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| Kathy |
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Reply with quote | #19 |
Amien,
I suppose it's difficult for 'normal' adult children to even fathom a parent being so cruel and heartless to their own children. I use the word "normal" because it is certainly not normal for a parent to inflict physical, emotional or mental pain on their child. Why on earth would a parent choose to hear crying coming from their children instead of laughter. I've known of a few mother dogs who have eaten their own young and that is the only way I can compare our childhoods. These N parents, just devour us.
I was a lonely child. We moved a lot and most years, I would be in 6 or more schools. I often say that I don't remember where I was at most times in my life. I could not have friends over to my house because of the secret lives we lead. To be friends with someone requires a certain amount of intimacy. You tell me your secrets and I will tell you mine. I could not and would never tell anyone what went on at my house, so I stayed to myself.
I could not accumulate 'things' due to the fact that we moved all the time. We rented furnished apartments at each destination. With each move, everything we owned had to be carried in one station wagon. There could be no bikes, no wagons, no scooters. I learned to amuse myself with paper dolls, coloring books and books. I would read anything that I could get my hands on.
I always loved dogs and my dad would usually allow me to have one dog. Dogs were much more than pets to me, they were companions and playmates. My earliest memories were playing nurse and my dog was always my patient. Funny, that I chose to became a veterinary nurse! LOL
So you see...my dogs were my Achilles Heel. There was nothing my parents could do that would hurt me worse than to take away my only companion. When my mother wanted to inflict emotional pain on me....she went through my dogs. I'd go to school and when I arrived back home, my dog would be gone. My mother would smile her sadistic smile and tell me that she had given the dog away that day due to some transgression on my part. Maybe, I didn't please her that day? My dad would come home from work and commiserate with me and soon, he would get me another dog, but sooner of later, my punishment would again be through my dogs.
I guess my dad thought my 20th year rebellion deserved the "mommy meanest" technique of punishment. My dad was cruel that night, but he learned his cruelty from the queen of mean.
Amien, I certainly hope and pray that your future is not like mine. My mistake was living close to my parents. Hindsight is 20/20, but if I could do it all over again, I'd move many thousand miles away and never look back! Maybe I'd visit once a year and only for a weekend! LOL
Avis, you are right about facing our parent's dysfunction, we are least likely to repeat them. When I was a child, I always ended my prayers with this promise: Dear God, when I grow up, I am not going to be mean to my little girl. And I've kept that promise! 
I've said it before and I will say it again.....some people should not have children!
~Kathy~
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| cleofet |
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Reply with quote | #20 |
Have any of you approached your N parent and told them that they are narcissistic? Have you ever told them that they are mean and negative and that you just can't take it anymore? For those of you that have the N parent living with you what do you do when they start saying they are trapped and that they have no one to talk to, and why is all of this happening to me when I took care of everyone and never wanted anything. What do you say when they won't take the meds that they previously begged the doctor for and then made me run right out to fill the prescription and then they won't take it because it has side effects, What do you do with a person who won't come out of the bedroom even to eat with the family almost every meal,who says she can't eat what we cook because it is to spicy (not), Who is always cold or hot no matter what everyone else is. A person who never lets you finish a sentence before jumping in with I always did ... and that is the correct way to do .... Maybe I am emotionally unstable as my mom says but she sure is adding to my problem and even though she says she wants o go back to Philadelphia she has not made any steps toward it and she doesn't even want to talk about it. It is getting to a blow up point. Knowing my mother she will probably take off on her own somehow and just disappear like she did from my brothers house in Philadelphia and no one knew where she was for 4 days. I am at my wits end. I even got into an argument with my husband last night because I want someone to stand up for me and let her know that I/we are doing every thing we can and that we did have to make changes in our life to take her in our home. She says she doesn't demand anything of us that all I do is take her to the doctor sometimes. My husband doesn't want to get into it with her and I really just want to be told it will be alright and that we will come up with something to make it all better even if it is a lie at this point. He is a very quite person and doesn't share feelings much but he does tell me all the time how much she is working on his nerves now. If anyone has approached their live in N parent please let me know how it went. Take care and God bless all of you.
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| laur (for cleofet) |
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Reply with quote | #21 |
Hi....i just wanted to say your entry could have been written by myself. I don't have any answers; I am still searching; haven't confronted her about being a narcissist. She just wouldn't get it.
I always felt, deep in my heart, that something was out of balance with our relationship. It's just lately that I am seeing that she is always the recipient of the comforting....I knock myself out trying to figure out what I can do to make her life easier...but not anymore. She really doesn't know how to comfort. I am drained; emotionally, mentally, physically. I've always felt sad for her; her childhood was oh, so sad...I believe it; I've heard it so many times. I felt at a very young age it was my responsibility to make her world right. My dad could have stepped in, but i think he saw what a great job I was doing, so he took a back seat.
I, just within this year, came to know the term narcissist. She's not full blown, more like a borderline (are you familiar with this disorder)...very needy, separation anxiety, self conscious, nervous, etc.
You had mentioned about your mom not liking spicy food. My mother has an aversion to garlic. I grew up in a garlic free home. My husband and boys, and I like it; it's in everything. I didn't cook with it for the longest time. She can put cotton or vicks in her nostrils. We've given up a lot, not just garlic....but not anymore! When my boys are home from school, and we're sitting at the dinnertable, she gets all quiet and sulky and says that we're excluding her. That's not true. My husband has bitten his lip many times. We never wanted it to turn out this way. My mother can be confrontational at times in an attempt to control me. I just recognized this. I am a very reasonable person dealing with an elder who can be downright unreasonable. I never have heard the woman say I'm sorry once. She likes to play the blame game.
I didn't give you any advice, but knowing that there's others dealing with the same situation hopefully will help a little. By the way, have you been to the Narcissists Suck site. Gotta love it. Best of luck to you!
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| cleofet |
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Reply with quote | #22 |
Laur, what is the web site address. I need all the help I can get dealing with her. Just now I knocked on her bedroom door to see if she wanted me to fix her some dinner. I told her that Gary was making Turkey chili but that I will take some of the Turkey ground and fix it with some string beans. She said " I don't like chili" I again told her it wouldn't be chili it would be ground turkey with string beans. She said she hates anything ground. She has no bottom teeth and anytime she does eat any meat we fix she always wants it ground up so she can chew it. I asked if she want anything else and she said she was not hungry. She was bending down this whole time trying to pick up her remote for the tv. I said do you want me to get that and she said " I have to do it when I am alone" I just said ok and left. Today just like most she has stayed in her room. I will pray for both of us. Really I will pray for ALL OF US! Take care and God bless. |
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| laur |
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Reply with quote | #23 |
Hi Cleofet.....the Narcissists Suck site is.....narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/......however, I believe you can google, narcissist suck, and it will come up. Good luck. My mom is not over-the-top "N", there are many okay days. As long as she is content and not feeling threatened, or whatever (i'm trying desperately to understand). Otherwise, she'll give me the silent treatment; sulky, moody. I, by all means, don't want to sound like i am dismissing her or writing her off. We were always close, too close, in retrospect. My feeling was...I would do anything to make her happy; but, really, nothing will truly make her happy. Sometimes I feel like I have failed her. We snap at each other, more now than ever. My wish was to make her remaining years, happy years....and they're not...for all involved. Let me know if you find the site. It's an insightful site. Take care. laur
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| Amien |
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Reply with quote | #24 |
Cleofet, I've tried several times as an adult to have a calm discussion w/my narcissistic mom regarding the impact of her hurtful actions and words upon me. These are some of the responses that I recall:
1) That I only remember the bad stuff. (Somehow this excuses the "bad stuff"? She doesn't acknowledge that the "bad stuff" needs to be addressed and acknowledged. My father believes I should "accept that she is the way she is" and that "peace in the family" is paramount and certainly more important than MY feelings and emotional hurt.)
2) That I fantasize these episodes. (Otherwise known as "gaslighting". If her "bad behavior" words are monstrous enough for her perhaps to have some remorse, she'll pretend that it didn't occur, even if she just said those wounding words seconds ago.)
3) That I'm just jealous of my "golden child" sibling. (Well, there's an extreme discrepancy in maternal parenting here. It's as if we've been raised by two separate households of distinctly different incomes, social expectations, level of care and emotional support, etc. My sib probably doesn't have any complaints about mom, because she had a comparitively wonderful childhood and was afforded all the advantages of an upper-middle income household, etc. while enjoying a loving and supportive mom and had an older sib to absorb mom's toxic personality.)
4) That it's my fault. (Mom actually told me once that I deliberately made her unhappy even as a small child.)
5) That obviously I've seen a psychiatrist, and I need to stop going immediately because they just blame the mother. (Confirmation that n-mom is so self-absorbed that she rather me be a depressed person than have me realize what a terrible mother she has been to me.)
My conclusion, supported by all the related "narcissism" books I've read, is that a narcissistic person can't be "fixed" and that they won't ever acknowledge that their behavior is problematic. Narcissists feel entitled to their opinions and to the full expression of their self-absorbed feelings and impulses, without forethought or regret of the emotional pain they may cause to their own children and families. They expect to be obeyed, catered to, and indulged. If ever the slightest murmur of discontent is noted, their wrath is extreme.
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| Amien |
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Reply with quote | #25 |
Kathy, I don't live far away enough yet not to be at that eventual daily "beck and call", so I dread the start of those caregiving obligations.
My parents are still very fit and able. My dad escapes daily, puttering away the day even now that he's retired. For years he's complained bitterly to me about mom, telling me it's my responsibility to attend to her emotional problems. He refuses to confront her disparaging nature, remains silent when she attacks, and joins in when she rages at me about some triffling matter (my visiting my in-laws, for instance).
My "golden child" sibling enjoys their daily assistance. Mom is mesmerized, lives vicariously through her exploits, and has often told me that I "don't do enough to help". Sib/BIL are highly successful and can afford all household help they need; I was chastised for not thinking to buy cake for my niece's 1st birthday.
As a kid I worked in my dad's business and as mom's household helper. My responsibilities far exceeded my abilities. I was denied many things, just for sake of "saying no", despite their upper-middle class lifestyle. Exact same things were readily allowed my sibling. Despite my placid, self -effacing manner, I was always always in trouble, slapped, dragged, screamed at, punatively denied simple pleasures, having my few personal possessions thrown away or given to my sib.
These postings stir up unresolved feelings; I'm still in my role as "scapegoat", unappreciated, subject of ridicule, somehow "2nd class". Why do I remain engaged in a relationship with these people? Kathy, perhaps you're one of the few that can help me with that answer.
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| Molly-Tx (for Amien) |
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Reply with quote | #26 |
Dear Amien,
The more I read of your life, the more I want to hug you!
Don't let them drag you down.
Molly-Tx
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| Kathy |
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Reply with quote | #27 |
My Dear Amien,
I cannot answer that question! I've asked myself the same question many, many times. Why didn't I just cut off all communication with my parents years ago? They've never been parents (or at least how I believe parents should be)and in fact, I have parented them. It's always been about them and their needs!They've depended on me to take care of their problems, while my own problems always have been considered insignificant and unimportant to them.
I always blamed my mother because my dad always told me that he would do more for me....except he'd have H*LL to pay from her!
It took years of sacrifice and let downs before I had my eyes opened to that fact that no matter how good I was.....no matter how hard I tried...it was not going to make a difference in the way I was treated or cared for!
Please don't follow in my footsteps....it will only add to your pain! Let the "golden child" step up to the plate when the time comes. Even if you devote your life to your parents, you will not reach that "golden" status!
We're kinda 'sisters' in our own H*LL, aren't we?
Love and Hugs,
~Kathy~
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| cleofet |
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Reply with quote | #28 |
Somehow it just keeps getting worse. As far as I can remember we always, as children, had enough to eat ok cloths to wear and always a roof over our heads but what we (all three of us and dad)didn't have was love. No outward or physical sign of LOVE. I don't EVER remember my mom hugging any of us or kissing us, dad included. I have always been the peace maker of the family or at least tried to be. Maybe they all are smarter then I am. Yes they are! My sister hasn't talked to mom for over 2 years and the one time mom called and left a msg. for her she did not return the call. It wasn't a nice message either. Mom didn't talk to my brother for probably longer then that but we did make it to Fl to see him before he died. If you ask her about when he died she always and I mean always says how rotten he treated her and that she didn't deserve it because "I was a good mother". Moms brother who is her only living sibling, she hates also because she says he made her sell her house and move her to New Orleans to live with her daughter (me). I want someone to tell her how she is and confront her so she sees it isn't only me that feels this way. I know she is mean to others but she is not their mother, the person that is suppose to love and nurture you. They have no responsibility to her and can walk away without the guilt. She has always instilled guilt in us and said "I am your mother you are suppose to take care of your mother. I took care of my mother and father until they died. I would do ANYTHING for my mother and father". She also bad mouths my poor dead father. He was kinda boring I guess but he wasn't the ogre she tries to say he was. He just didn't want to confront her because he knew there would be hell to pay. I don't like her and her ways and she is miserable living her with us. Now that I know that she will never be the mother I needed when I was a kid and that I thought she might be in her last years I need to know how to tell her that she needs to go somewhere else. Even if she really doesn't want to go she is acting out to much to stay here much longer. My husband and I are starting to argue more and more because of things dealing with her. I know I am spending a lot of time going back and forth to doctors for both real and made up ailments and that I get so upset with her on a daily basis that it overflows onto my other relationships with husband and kids. I know that my husband and kids see the way she treats me when they are around and it is worse when we are alone. Speaking to her about leaving and following through is a real requirement to saving my life, sanity and my relationships with my family. There I go again running on and on. God bless all who are caregivers even if the parent says you don't do anything but bring them to the doctor. |
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| Avis |
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Reply with quote | #29 |
Cleofet -- {{Hugs}}
Above all else, please make your marriage a priority. With that all things are possible.
Love,
Avis
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| 'daughter' |
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Reply with quote | #30 |
Cleofet,
If my mother had the audacity to tell me that all I do is take her to the doctor, then you can bet your sweet biffy, that from that moment forward, that is ALL I would be doing for her - taking her to the doctor. Period.
Everything else, she would have to start doing for herself from that point forward!!!  these elderlies, and their little stinger comments are starting to really annoy me.....
And if she said 'why aren't you helping me to....' I would say "I thought that all I did was take you to the doctor?". HMMMMMMMMM????
'daughter' (beth)
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