| Dustygirl01 |
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Reply with quote | #16 |
I hear about parents who do so much for their adult children and their grandchildren. It's such a foreign concept for me. My parents entire focus my entire life was what I was doing for them.
Madalyn...I'm all for lying if you need to with these narc. parents. It's really hard for me to say, "Sorry...I can't do that". My counselor told me not to make up any lies/stories/excuses...to simply tell my father, "Look, this is how it's going to be and if you don't like it, then I won't be in your life." This was when she suggested I use boundaries with him. Sometimes, a little white lie can save our sanity while we're gathering our strength. Maybe you could tell your mother, "Gee...this new anti-anxiety medication I'm on has really affected my balance. I don't think it's safe for me to take care of you while you re-cooperate." The problem is these narc. parents are so DENSE that they simply don't care about you and your health issues...they just keep on demanding and demanding. |
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| Alinka |
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Reply with quote | #17 |
Hello, madalyn, JH and everyone,
Quote: "and from that day you owed me everything that you could ever do for me"
I've never seen that movie or heard those words. I grew up with two Nparents and the motto was: "we own you and you owe us".
Reading how it should be, from that, along with Dusty's quote from the Bible almost makes me, okay, does make me nauseous when I think of my selfish, critical, mean parents.
The last contact I had with NF was on the phone (he is now deceased) and he used that to tell me off, remind me how I should live and how grateful to him and NM I should be.
I try to thrive despite them but not always with success. My thoughts and hopes are with you.
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| Dustygirl01 |
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Reply with quote | #18 |
So much about parenting is letting go when you should. Narc. parents never let go, they tighten their choke hold. It's a parent's job to raise a child to be independent and to do for themselves and have the skills to successfully navigate the world and the people in it. My biggest worry in life right now is helping my son find his path that will make him successful and independent and happy. I am formulating my retirement and old age care plans as if my son didn't exist. I will not be dependent upon him.
Parenting involves constant giving (which narcs. are incapable of) and sometimes (or a lot of the time) sacrificing with no formal "thank you". The "thank you" I get every day is seeing my son who is now taller than I am, who has made it to high school, who has a CRAZY sense of humor, who has a 100% in French class. The "thank you" that I get is the smile he brings to my face every day, just for being him. He amazes me, just for being him. I told him today on the way home from the orthodontist, "How did I ever get a kid who is so cool?"
These narc. parents are the ones who are truly missing out. The adult children who have survived having narc. parents are the ones who truly are capable of appreciating all the good things in life. When we meet a friend or a significant other who is "healthy" and "normal" wow...we appreciate them so much. We appreciate their parents who are fun, kind, and normal. We know what the good stuff is. A narc. never will.
My boyfriend is having back surgery. I am looking forward to being able to help him. I fully plan on either having him stay here or I'll stay at his house. I told him I WILL be driving him home from the surgery in my SUV which is easier to get in and out of then his low to the ground little car. I WILL be making all his meals. I WILL be feeding his livestock twice a day for him. Why? Because he will say, "Thank you, sweetie, I appreciate it". Because he would do the same for me without even wanting or expecting any thanks. When I was deathly ill with the flu, he brought me anything I needed and took my semi-housebroken 4 month old German Shepherd with him so I wouldn't have to deal with him.
I'm actually starting to pity these narc. parents. They truly are pathetic.
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| Redneck |
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Reply with quote | #19 |
madalyn, Hi ! 
I rarely respond to the threads about "N's"...because I, thank god, never have experienced their "stuff" up-close enough to "hurt". My viewpoint, I truly know, isn't informed nor helpful. I am a by-stander; but one who deeply cares about everyone here.
As a by-stander...may I just ponder your initial question: "Why should I be there for her?"
If a total stranger never was there for you...neglected, ignored, verbally abused you...would you set aside your life, your health, your own family responsibilities...to BE THERE for a total stranger?
If not...no WAY...then why is a 'parent' who was never there for you...neglected and abused you...MORE entitled to and deserving of your sacrificing YOUR life for him/her...?
As a bystander...who isn't "you"...doesn't have "your" experiences..."your" emotions...I would honestly feel and behave far more caring to a stranger who abused me than to ...a person WHO IS SUPPOSED TO LOVE ME...
Abuse from a stranger, I could explain away, excuse or perhaps overlook...because strangers have no reason to care about me. But would I "excuse" abuse from a person who is suppose to care about, love and nurture me...? Redneck-language: IN A PIG'S A$$ !!!
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| MsLucy |
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Reply with quote | #20 |
Redneck, your reply was well-stated. I agree with you completely.
I never have and never will take abuse from anyone, stranger or not.
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #21 |
I always enjoy reading your responses, Redneck. You are a very smart and caring person, which is why I listen to everything you say very closely. I hope Madalyn finds as much comfort in your words as I have.
MsLucy, I agree with you and wish I could be like you, but unfortunately I'm not. I think a lot of us here were taught to accept abuse when we were young and now we don't know how to stop. As crazy as that sounds, it feels wrong to go against our parents, even when we know that what they are asking us to do is completely unreasonable or toxic to our well-being.
We are this way because we were taught to abandon ourselves as children. Back then, we existed only to meet our parents' needs. If we failed in that regard or if we expressed a need of our own, we were punished or made to feel selfish. We were taught that it was morally wrong to disobey our parents and that we shouldn't question them. We were "good" when we allowed our parents to take advantage of us and "bad" when we tried to protect ourselves. We didn't want to be bad, because that would guarantee us punishment, so we put aside our own needs and abandoned ourselves in order to avoid punishment. It was a survival technique we clearly no longer need.
We have to work hard to undo this messed up thinking. If you were loved as a child and given permission to protect yourself, this probably seems like a no-brainer. But for those of us who were taught otherwise, it is painfully hard. Our goal, though, it to get where you are.
Best wishes to everyone who is struggling to undo the abusive programming!
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| Redneck |
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Reply with quote | #22 |
Splotchy, Hi !!!
You and the other adult children of "N's" or whatever the individual situation...have my utmost awe. I am continually blown-away by your strength to withstand what I could not.
My interjection in no way was meant to belittle the choices you make, have made and/or had no choice in their making.
I just find it not-okay to continue standing-BY and observing the pain continually inflicted on you...without standing-UP to, at least, screech that ABUSE NEVER IS OK. Whether a child is 4 yrs. old...or 60...abuse is abuse...whether verbal, physical, emotional...whether the parent is 16 yrs. old or 106...
When I witness a child being abused by a parent, I am not able to "reason" it into being somehow "okay" in "this" case.
My love to each of you...and my respect. I wish I had a magic-wand to wave...
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #23 |
Redneck,
Your comments were very empowering, Redneck. I did not feel belittled in any way. I was just explaining (perhaps for my own clarification) why some of us continue to allow our parents to abuse us. We know it's bad, but we aren't able to adequately stand up for ourselves (yet). Comments from people like you help us get stronger, so keep them coming!
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #24 |
P.S. Thank you for your love and support. You are such a blessing here.
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| MsLucy |
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Reply with quote | #25 |
Hi Madalyn, I agree with the others, you have absolutely zero responsibility to take her for the surgery. ( She can take a cab.) I'm happy to see you've come to that conclusion too! I don't think you need to make any excuses to her though, such as implying that you have anxiety or your nerves are bad. Just tell her no. Splotchy, as far as undoing the programming, I don't know how to do that because I haven't been there. The only thing I can suggest, as has been said so often here, is set boundaries for yourself. Perhaps not letting the bad thought take over, something like that. Set a little one first. Practice until you can move on to a bigger boundary. It's not easy - I had to learn to set boundaries too. Although the boundaries dealt with mother, it was not because of her power, it was because of my own knee-jerk, ever-helpful mentality.
Lucy
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #26 |
Thanks, MsLucy. Those of us whose mothers consistently drive tanks through our boundaries have to learn how to set stronger ones or learn how to say goodbye.
I admire your strength to never take abuse from anyone, and I hope to join you there someday. That is my goal.
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| ~OK~ |
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Reply with quote | #27 |
Splotchy said:
Quote: We have to work hard to undo this messed up thinking. If you were loved as a child and given permission to protect yourself, this probably seems like a no-brainer. But for those of us who were taught otherwise, it is painfully hard. Our goal, though, it to get where you are.
Best wishes to everyone who is struggling to undo the abusive programming!
Splotchy is certainly correct about parental abuse and the 'programmed' long lasting effects.
When a child is constantly beaten down, physically, mentally, or emotionally, they begin to think they have no choice, but to just accept the abuse, even as an adult. I really don't think anyone can really understand, unless they were raised with that kind of fear and under that kind of oppression. It is very difficult to change these patterns.
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| NGA |
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Reply with quote | #28 |
As crazy as that sounds, it feels wrong to go against our parents, even when we know that what they are asking us to do is completely unreasonable or toxic to our well-being.
We are this way because we were taught to abandon ourselves as children. Back then, we existed only to meet our parents' needs. If we failed in that regard or if we expressed a need of our own, we were punished or made to feel selfish. We were taught that it was morally wrong to disobey our parents and that we shouldn't question them. We were "good" when we allowed our parents to take advantage of us and "bad" when we tried to protect ourselves. We didn't want to be bad, because that would guarantee us punishment, so we put aside our own needs and abandoned ourselves in order to avoid punishment. It was a survival technique we clearly no longer need. Splotchy
You nailed it, right down to the not wanting to be seen as "bad, " which explains why a person would continue to do things that are contrary to his/her own self-interest. And it makes me think many "saints" may well have been the spawn of narcs.
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| madalyn |
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Reply with quote | #29 |
I'm big on ((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))) so heres one for each of you. You know, I just feel like I cant breathe today. Sometimes we feel so all alone in this. I have tried to view my mother as a stranger. I was doing so great limiting contact, almost treating replies to her emails just as if we were only casual aquaintances.......then it all unraveled. My kids dont understand, nor my hubby..they say "theres no changing her, we dont know what to do" but they do worry about my health. Its true my kids dont know because I have been everything to them that she could not be to me..almost to the point of doing to much. I think for daughters of N's, the idea of not helping them leaves us thinking "what happens when they pass, i dont want regrets" I am a super sensitive gal, this is common in daughters of N's.
I can never ever again have any hopes of her being a true mom to me. I always knew she was not all together there...in the days when I was raising my children I just didnt pay attention. Now at 56, and her 74 shes becoming so much worse in her N ways. This I was warned would happen. 3 years ago she went to my first grandaughters birthday party, only because she insisted on making the cake to brag about it. She needs those "oh look what you did, how pretty" she lives for them!! We came home and she looked at me and said "these parties are so boring for us" meaning her and step-dad.
That began a spiraling down for me...all the years of comments like this...yet this rude comment about a 1 year olds party cut like a knife. She has not gone again, my grandaughter is 3, the new grandgirl is 1. I told her that "we know theyre boring for her" LOL!!
Its exactly true that we get beaten down so much (my case emotionally) that we know no other way to be, until the day arrives when we realize that enough is enough.
Its not "when" anymore but "now" right now for my own life.
I sent that email last night, telling her "I am not as able to do this as before, I am 56 and things are not easy like before" This meaning the many times I've taken her for surgeries. , and I did say my nerves are very bad. I also said "I want you to get one of my brothers to go with me for support and company"
You know, when you tell them something like "my nerves are very bad" your always as an N's victim watching for a "oh sweetie I'm so sorry you dont feel well" this is exactly what I'd say to my daughter. I do all the time. My mom is an ignorant, self-absorbed sick person! She will never acknowlege I have problems, this jeopardizes her supply.
i got a one sentence reply, "we wont worry about it, its weeks away" no sure I'll ask your bros. Next step, go to the bros myself. I know she drives them nuts too, esp the oldest one. Hes called me about her finances..shes so deep in debt, a bulldozer couldnt move it.
Thank you dear friends..I'm overwhelmed at the replies and I've read each one over and over, absorbing your wisdom. hurting when you hurt, just so grateful to have a voice.
For each of us daugherts on N's I pray we find peace and give our own lives first place. We still live in that little girl world that we thought was ok, we knew no better as children...but IT IS NOT OK ANYMORE
Love
Madalyn
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| OhDear |
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Reply with quote | #30 |
>"I want you to get one of my brothers to go with me for support and company"
I think it would be best if you bowed out totally. If you have a sibling go with you, what will happen is they will show up for the easy part like sitting in the waiting room. After the procedure they will see your mother for a short while, then find any excuse to leave.
You will have to continue to stay with her at the hospital, get her home and look after her at home. THEY will get all the glory for 'being there', even if their face time with your mother was 30 minutes, YOU will get all the work! AND because they 'helped' they will be resistant to doing it again anytime soon because they feel they did their bit.
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