| pq |
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Reply with quote | #31 |
It was never okay, always remember that. And DO contact your brothers yourself, not for company but to say "I can't go, one of you will have to or make arrangements."
Redneck is right on target. I remember once giving similar advice to a good friend who was in a terrible relationship with a guy who openly cheated on her, lied to her, was horrible. I asked her, "If I lied to you and treated you so badly, would we still be friends?" Her answer, of course, was no. "Then why would you accept that treatment from the person who's supposed to love you more than anyone else?"
Like others, I haven't lived through this experience with an N parent, although I have come to realize that my brother is probably an N; it explains so much about THAT relatioonship. BUT I do understand how hard it must be to break out of those behavior patterns, to not want to be "bad" in the eyes of your N parent. But consider this: even when you do exactly what your N parent wants, do you ever really get that outcome that you're looking for, or are you STILL "bad" or inadequate in their eyes for whatever reason? It seems there will never be a way to please this type of person, so why sacrifice yourself to a lost cause?
Okay, I know it's easier said than done, but Splotchy said below that having the message repeated helps, so here it is again. YOUR FEELINGS AND YOUR WELL-BEING AND YOUR HAPPINESS IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS ANYONE ELSE'S. You owe your life to NO ONE BUT YOURSELF. Just as you know your own child would never deserve this treatment, know that you are no different and your parent is wrong in her demands.
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #32 |
Madalyn,
I can completely relate to your quote:
I was doing so great limiting contact, almost treating (her contact) just as if we were only casual acquaintances.......then it all unraveled.
This is exactly the cycle I seem to be having with my mom. I go for a period of time where I can manage my relationship with her (either with low contact or no contact), and then something will happen that seemingly unravels all my progress. I'm so sorry this is happening to you, too.
While I agree with everyone's advice, (including pq's recent comments that your feelings, well-being, and happiness are just as important as anyone else's), I often find myself not able to pull it off. It's really hard to break these old patterns, especially when you don't have a great support system.
I liken it to being in prison for a crime you did not commit. People may see the injustice and advise you to just escape, but unless you have someone physically there on the other side giving you the tools and support you need to escape, you probably won't be too successful.
So how do we get the tools and the support we need? That is what I am working on now. If you caught me on a good day, I would probably give you all kinds of advice about how I am trying to rebuild my life (with boundaries, identity building, self-care, etc.) When I find something that works for me, I tend to get excited and try to share it. But when I am having insecure days, (like today), I only can say that I have no answers but will keep plugging away, hoping that my faith and my perseverance will bring me what I need.
I hope you can find the answers for you, too. I do know that it helps to really take care of ourselves and not abandon ourselves anymore. Please try to do that.
Lots of ((((((hugs)))))). (And I'm not even a hugger!) Take care.
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| Overwhelmed |
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Reply with quote | #33 |
To Madalyn and all the writers on this board - THANK YOU!! I feel so liberated after having read your experiences with your elderly parents and your take on why we hang in their is right on target. I thought I was alone in how I felt about taking care of two people who beat me down emotionally every chance they got. And what's worse is that they continued with their emotional abuse right into my adulthood. After robbing me of my self-esteem and self-worth, they sit back and expect that I will be there hand and foot attending to their every need. My siblings don't help and I feel guilty turning my back. It is tremendous torture going to my mother's home as it is the place I grew up in and spent years anxiously waiting to get away from. Isn't it so sad that we have to continuously convince ourselves that we are worth something and have the right to stand up for ourselves when this should have been instilled in us as children? Madalyn I empathize with your feelings and situation. Thank you again so much for giving us the opportunity to have a place where we could share our thoughts and basically "vent". |
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| NGA |
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Reply with quote | #34 |
"It is tremendous torture going to my mother's home as it is the place I grew up in and spent years anxiously waiting to get away from." OVERWHELMED
AMEN, SISTER.
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| madalyn |
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Reply with quote | #35 |
UNBELIEVEABLE!!! Mom had the choice to do the back surgery early Jan or Dec, shes choose Dec 16th!! I'm telling ya, she did this deliberately!! She is driving everywhere, having a Christmas bazaar dec 5th and 6th where she has to carry things, shes been doing cabinet cleaning, emailing me about all shes been doing....yet she cant put this surgery off 2 weeks until after Christmas. Seems shes getting around pretty good!
She had the choice, but mom never thinks of anyone else. I have a Christmas parade to go to with my grandgirls, we're going to get the trees(this we make a fun day with kids and grandkids) I'm having a Christmas day get together here for husbands family. You guys know the cleaning and preparations that go into these things. How the H*** wil I do all this and bow down for her too???
Typical N behavior!! She never made Christmas fun or even cared if our family got together. To this day she could care less if she sees us on that day. Its why I do so much for husbands family. They are joyful, beautiful people to be around. Christmas with them is so much fun!!
Give me advice girls..please!!! I can get her to the surgery the16th, get her home, that will be around the 21st I imagine...but I have to have days to get ready for my holiday plans. I already told her I cant lift her..I wont,!! I have a bad hip and can barely move in the mornings. I roll out of bed.
Oh this would be easier if she had been a "mom" She continually talks only of herself, I honestly cannot hardly stand to be near her. I tell you this..I will not give up a beautiful holiday with my kids, grandkids and hubbys family. They are giving, loving and normal!!
Thanks everyone for listening to my rant. I just dont understand my mother, when she could have waited. Her back has been like this for a year...why would 2 weeks until Jan have made any difference at all, being that shes on the go as always
maybe i'm the selfish one. if only shed been a good mother..........
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| OhDear |
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Reply with quote | #36 |
Park her ass in REHAB after she is discharged from the hospital. Tell the discharge planner you CAN'T TAKE CARE OF HER PERIOD and she will have to be placed in rehab until she can get around on her own.
Just because your mother picked a STUPID time to get her operation does NOT mean you have to rearrange your life to deal with it. In fact if you tell the hospital you can't take care of her if she has the operation before Christmas maybe THEY will tell her she will have to wait until AFTER Christmas.
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| SUE |
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Reply with quote | #37 |
Dear Madalyn,
Unfortunately your mother is behaving in typical 'n' fashion, putting her needs first regardless of your plans. 'N's do and arrange what they want and expect everyone to fall in to accomodate them, 'n's are just incapable of empathy, understanding, and certainly never make compromises. Any attempt to reason with them is futile, they appear to have a will of iron.
I am starting to get willful myself, refusing to bend over backwards to 'be there' unless it also suits me. It is hard to break the habit of always being expected to fit in, for fear of punishment and ...this includes self-punishment by allowing ourselves to feel guilty for not supporting our mothers in their perceived hour of need.
I agree with OhDear. You can tell your mother what you are able to do..like take her to appointment but as from 21st you cannot help. Period.
Do you think that your mother may, in typical 'n' fashion, be trying to spoil and sabatage your happy holiday season with your family????
Please do not allow her to.
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| Prodigal |
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Reply with quote | #38 |
Oh Madalyn, This sounds hard and I'm not sure I could do it myself ... but you realize what needs to happen here, don't you?
"I tell you this..I will not give up a beautiful holiday with my kids, grandkids and hubbys family."
Yep, sure sounds to me like your head is in the right place for the right decision. And the right decision, in my opinion (which is admittedly being given from a safe distance) ... is to tell your mother that if she schedules her operation right smack dab in the middle of the holidays, you will not be available to her. At all. Nada. Not one single thing. Otherwise you will get sucked into doing everything and you know that and that's why you're so hopping mad! And how charming that she made a point of telling you that she had a reasonable option to do it in January and she deliberately chose to do at the worst time for you. I'm sorry, but I know Ns and that was no accident. Don't let her get away with it ... PLEASE? Make a stand for all us downtrodden children of Ns!!! We will cheer for you!!!
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| madalyn |
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Reply with quote | #39 |
So this is what I told her in an email. "You should have planned it for Jan, now because of this I will not be able to help with anything other than driving you there, taking you home. I cant lift you, you'll have to get others to do it if needed. I'm just to busy to be available that close to Christmas"
Got a reply about all the others who would be helping, so GREAT , I'm off the hook except for the drive in, drive out. Oh and I'm not sitting hours waiting. I'll go to Walmart nearby the hospital, do some Christmas shopping. I wont pretend to be the worried daughter. I do care but like Sue said "I'm starting to get willful myself" , me too Sue!! I refuse to be used like this each time she needs me, then cast aside for another year till she needs something again.
Found out step-dad is being driven in to the hospital by a friend. Step-dad who doesnt do crap for her, yet she'll tell you how perfect he is. So he'll be there if she doesnt start poo-pooing his going by saying "he doesnt need to go, he cant sit around like that for long" I guarantee she'll do this.
So I'm the taxi cab,woo-hoo!! I can deal with it. Wont be much different than if I really was one. I'll drive, she'll ramble, I'll listen, just wont get the taxi cab fee..
Hope I've made you girls a little proud, its not walking away completely I know.... but doing it on "MY OWN TERMS" YES, my own terms..aww that sounds good!! Its a good feeling and a small step on the road to recovery from being the dutiful daughter. I'm a big girl now, time to act like one
THANK YOU, THANK YOU Everyone
(((((((((Hugs))))))))))))
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| 'daughter'(beth) |
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Reply with quote | #40 |
big hugs to you Madalyn. Keep your eyes on the prize- which is, Dec. 17 when it is done, for you anyways.
I am amazed you are even taking her there, that says a lot for you. I would not have done it. December 16?! What the heck, is she getting a pre-Christmas discount ? And if she had waited until January, it would have all applied to her new deductible for 2010, so that any subsequent medical stuff, the deductible would have been done and dusted. that would have made more sense.
All I can figure is, she gets some kind of bargain basement discount by having it done right before Christmas! (or Medicare does). Or -- Medicare is not going to cover it next year and the surgeon knows this.
much love,
beth
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| madalyn |
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Reply with quote | #41 |
Hi Beth, How are things going with your mom? Hope things have settled down. You've had a tough time ((((((Hugs)))))
I have no clue why she choose Dec 16th over Jan??? One thing is she just doesnt care about Christmas. I think she feels if shes down, she doesnt have to do anything. Mom, stepdad, and my brothers are Christmas Scrooges. Thank goodness I have husbands family..I'm grateful for them.
It could be some kind of bargain thing. She never said why, just that she decided to set that date and not wait till Jan, when just last week she told me Jan was probably when she'd do it. As an N she never puts anyone above herself.
Thanks Beth
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| billie jo |
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Reply with quote | #42 |
madelyn, you are speaking for a lot more people than just yourself here. you are doing this as a role model for members of the board here who have not yet cast off the shackles or reached enlightenment, you are doing this for the wonderful people who have enriched your life [your h and children and your h's loving family.] let your mother know and i mean REALLY KNOW that the timing of her surgery couldn't have been worse for you and your family as there are just too many plans that can NOT be changed and you are sorry you will be unable to be of assistance to her. ask both her and the hospital social worker to make sure she has a reliable back up caregiving plan or she will have to go to a rehab. and ask then to verify her backup plan, as you cannot have her pulling you out of the hat at the last minute and putting you in an impossible situation of being asked to care for her when you are unable. insist they have a real plan in place, a plan carved in stone for her release regardless of what she tells them. let them know that what she says and what is reality often do not mesh. it must be foolproof and it cannot include you. reinforce to them that you are not heartless but are physically unable to do the work involved in caring for a post surgical person. period! it is there job to see to it that she is set for post surgical care. i would even go so far as to ask for hospital provided transport vans to take her to and from the hospital. one baby step of involvement on your part at a time will suck you in deeper and deeper intil your feet are stuck in quagmire. ask the time of the actual surgery, be there to see her into the surgery and give her a kiss and your support and love, ask approximately how long it will take, give them your cell phone number and ask them to call you for with the estimated time of recovery before you can see her and go from there. let them know that you have never had the nerves to ne able to sit in a waiting room and listen to the clock tick by seemingly backwards and ask them to use you cell for any reason they see as important. i would suggest you not pick her up, sign her out or assume responsibility for her post sugery. let the hospital make all post surgery arrangements. let them know that you do not trust your physical abilities to assist her and could never forgive yourself if you inadveratently harmed her in any way. just keep the cell phone as their line to you. and enjoy making plans and traditions with the ones who have given you happiness and good memories during over the years. these are now your traditions. enjoy them and leave the guilt with the ghost of christmas past. blessings and happy memories to you. gail |
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| Prodigal |
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Reply with quote | #43 |
Billie Jo has a good point, Madalyn. You may want to call the hospital and talk to one of their social workers. As I understand it, when you transport a family member to the hospital for surgery, are the contact person for the hospital staff to call when he/she is in recovery, and then you transport the patient from the hospital, you are IT legally. By doing those specific things, you are agreeing to be physically responsible for the patient. No matter what your mother's claims about "all the others who will be helping," if that's not accurate or falls through, YOU will be responsible for providing for her post-surgical needs. Why do you think she assigned you, and nobody but you, the specific tasks of driving her in and picking her up? That puts you on the hook for whatever she needs later, no matter her assurances to the contrary.
I hope all of the above is just unnecessary worry ... but you might want to give some thought as to the position in which you're allowing your mother to place you. I do APPLAUD you for setting limits with her and I hope you're able to enforce those. I just don't trust her, given her history with you. It's real easy for manipulative self-centered people to tell us whatever we want to hear and than go right ahead and start ordering us around later as if nothing else was agreed upon! I know, I've been there. I think the formal term for this is "getting sucked in." Will keep my fingers crossed for you! |
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| Will I Survive |
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Reply with quote | #44 |
Quote: Originally Posted by OhDear
Park her ass in REHAB after she is discharged from the hospital. Tell the discharge planner you CAN'T TAKE CARE OF HER PERIOD and she will have to be placed in rehab until she can get around on her own.
Just because your mother picked a STUPID time to get her operation does NOT mean you have to rearrange your life to deal with it. In fact if you tell the hospital you can't take care of her if she has the operation before Christmas maybe THEY will tell her she will have to wait until AFTER Christmas.
I completely agree with this. The N people just LOOOOOVE to do something during the holidays that not only disrupts everyone's plans, but makes them the center of attention.
Do not agree to be part of her care if she has the operation in December (easier said than done, I know). Mentally put it in this context - do you want to take care of her and not be able to spend time with the part of your family that brings you happiness and joy?
To add - do not agree to take her for her surgery. The ladies have a point. When you bring her, you will have to stay there until it's over and you will be marking yourself as the person who will take care of her when she's out.
Tell her if she was having it in January, you could do it, but not in December.
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| E-nuff4me |
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Reply with quote | #45 |
Hi Madalyn
I don't know why I'm so nervous for you but I guess it is because I was in a similar situation just a short while ago that I'm still reeling from. It seems that my mom went in to the hospital for back surgery too and just at the time my N'sister, the one helping mom found it necessary to go off to Europe for almost 2 months.
I thought that everyone was quite aware that I was not going to do any care, nothing for my mother as I've my own health issues and it was not longer even possible for me to help mom in that way. Well, everyone was all smiles and happy and in agreement and I had even talked to the SW and nurses involved and then then I got the call from the rehab that they were kicking mom out after a couple of weeks before she could look after herself and that was the end of my sanity for a while.
I was supposed to come and get my mother in 3 days and look after her. I refused. Then I got a call from my sister in Europe and she ordered me to go and get my mother and look after her, I refused and then hung up on her raging at me. Then I got a call from her daughter and she ordered me to go and get my mother and look after her, I refused. Then I got another call from another one of my sisters daughters who also ordered me to go and get my mother and guess what, I refused again.
In the end my nieces did get my mom and one niece again phoned me to come and look after mom when they got her home as they couldn't stay with her as they had a life and I refused again. In 2 days mom was back in hospital and guess who was waiting for me in Emergency, 3 of my nieces who demanded to know why I hadn't got there sooner as my niece the one with the university education, had to go and ask the nurse how her grandma was and she was so stressed out about that, and said that I should be the 'contact person' and be responsible for my mother.
Well I did shake my walker a bit and asked them if they noticed that I could hardly walk but I didn't waste to much energy as by this time no one was even looking at me as they were so angry.
So after another couple of months in rehab my sister returned and all by herself moved mom to the Al and neither she nor my nieces are speaking to me as they say I'm lazy and a liar and don't love my mother and that I owe them an apology.... for saying 'no"?.
Sorry, I can't but help but be concerned that this for you too could be more then you bargained for so please take care and have a couple of contingency plans ready.
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