| pq |
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Reply with quote | #1 |
Forgive me, this is going to be long.
On a good day my mom works 18 hours a day as a full-time caregiver to Dad, who for almost five years has been paralyzed on one side and wheelchair-bound, which is a huge job in itself, all the while trying to keep up with the house and yard and everything else. She has an ENORMOUS weight of responsibility on her shoulders at all times. And that is just when things are running smoothly. When Dad is having persistent bowel issues, she gets no sleep at all, but stays up all night, constantly trying to clean up him and the bed and the bathroom, and it takes no imagination to picture what that is like. Sometimes she is so tired by morning that all the dirty towels and stuff lay on the bathroom floor half the day until she has the time and energy to take them to the basement and rinse them by hand before putting them in the wash. This would be an enormous challenge to a younger and healthier person. Mom is 81 years old, with diabetes, depression, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol, which put her at a high risk of stroke or heart attack. Her vision is very poor, and she is at great risk for falls. She is not physically as strong as she once was. This work takes a great toll on her. She never rests. There's no way for her to EVER get caught up, to get the house clean and sanitary, and she definitely hates that. Yet she won't allow outside help to come in and assist to make things easier for them. And she will NEVER complain about this because she thinks it is her duty to take care of everything herself as long as she is physically able to drag herself around. The ONLY respite she gets is if one of us visits and helps. Does she protest? YES. But if you just go ahead and do things, she's ultimately relieved and grateful. A year or more ago, she and I had our last discussion about this subject, and I basically said that, if she wasn't going to let aides or cleaners come in to help, that she should just expect me to do things around the house when I come, and I wasn't going to argue about it. And guess what? I do, and she gets a little respite. And while she'll sometimes protest a little still, by the time she finishes what she's saying, the job is usually done anyway, and then we get to spend time together, which is what she most wants to do when we're there.
So right now we're planning for Christmas, where my husband and I and my brother and his wife come to my parents' house and share the holiday. Traditionally, Mom makes Christmas dinner, and a newer tradition has me and my husband making prime rib for Christmas Eve dinner. However, my brother just announced that they will not be arriving until Christmas Eve, around 6 or 7pm. This makes doing the roast that night kind of iffy, as it's difficult to time around an unknown arrival time, and also my parents are used to eating earlier, around 5 or 5:30. So I talked to Mom last night and suggested that we do the prime rib on the 26th, and that my husband and I bring a big tub of his homemade spaghetti sauce (full of homemade meatballs and sausage) to have Christmas Eve; that way, no matter when brother and SIL arrive, dinner will be easy to put on the table, and if Mom and Dad need to eat earlier, they can. Mom was enthusiastic and looking forward to the meatballs.
So this morning I tell my brother this via email, and this is what I said:
"Mom and I got it all worked out: Christmas Eve, we're having spaghetti with Digger's homemade sauce, which is full of homemade meatballs and sausage and is quite fabulous, and then we'll have roast beast on the 26th. That way we don't have to worry about timing in case you get stuck in a snowstorm or whatever. AND everyone gets to have Husband Sauce, which is truly fabulously good.
Starting to get excited!"
Here's the reply I get:
"Uhhhh....we need to talk about something that you are not going to like.....
I know you mean well....and Mom would NEVER tell you this...but we need to respect her house on Christmas (which means, among many things, NO cleaning bathrooms or PRE-cleaning her kitchen etc...both of which are hugely insulting) ....AND we need to appreciate HER cooking... Mom has mentioned several times that she will not cook for either of you...and feels that her cooking simply is not good enough....she kept saying last week (to AnnaMarie and Dad...I was not there) that she is no longer a good cook....they had to assure her repeatedly that she is (which is TRUE by the way)..and I know this is coming from the fact that you guys take over.. Bottom line is, we would all prefer MOM's famous sauce which is fabulously good...not Husband sauce So please, make your roast beef as planned.... and DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE tell Mom I told you this....just tell her you talked to me and I pushed for Roast Beef (which is great by the way!) Again, hope this does not come across as too harsh...but I've been meaning to address this with you for some time.....Mom is the host of our Christmas in her house...she has always LIVED for this...and she is NOT an invalid.....we all need to remember and respect that" When I talked to Mom last night, she was very enthusiastic about our bringing the sauce, as I've told her about it many times and she's said she'd like to try it. Knowing her, she will still make a ham or something as well, but if she's tired or Dad's sick or any other of a number of unexpected events occur, she won't have to.
She IS critical of her own cooking. She always has been. I always tell her I love her cooking. Does she sometime squirm when we're cooking in her house? Yes, because she finds it hard to sit by and watch other people work. But she's getting used to it, and learning to enjoy it, and GETTING A MOMENT OF REST, which she desperately needs. What DOESN'T help is when my brother reinforces to her the idea that no one else should lift a finger in her house but her. The house is dirty. Not cluttered or messy, but dirty and possibly unsanitary. Mom can't see that well, and doesn't clean very well any more. When she cooks, she often spills raw eggs and raw meat juices on other utensils or on clean dishes in the drying rack because she's not as attentive to things as she used to be. That's unhealthy. That is why I clean up the kitchen as best I can and the bathroom that time. At least for a short time, I know they have a sanitary cooking area or a sanitary bathroom. My brother is a healthy strong 47 years old and never lifts a finger for my parents. The most he has ever done is carry his dinner plate to the kitchen sink, and usually not even that. Fine, I learned to accept that a long time ago and don't care. But for God's sake, WHY must he insist that we all sit and be waited on hand and foot by the 81-year-old struggling old lady????? I don't ask him to do anything, or flaunt the stuff that we do (heck, you have to sneak around to do anything). All I want is for him to be supportive and NOT try and sabotage the few things I have an opportunity to do for my mother. Frankly, I would rather she be a little annoyed at me for doing laundry than having to drag the laundry herself up and down the basement stairs. I'm fine with her being a little annoyed if it means she gets a few precious hours of REST. She's actually got a little better about accepting my help in the last two years. And if he would just get with the program, she would be even more okay with it. But he makes a fuss and upsets her. And now my husband is afraid that he's been offending my mother all this time by cooking breakfast on Christmas day.
Now I'm dreading Christmas. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I do as I like, my brother is going to make a stink about it at Christmas, or even call Mom now and upset her about it. If I do things his way, I get to sit miserably and watch my exhausted mother cooks and clean for four adult houseguests in addition to her regular exhausting work schedule. I just wish I could go home right now and cry it out.
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| goodwillgal |
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Reply with quote | #2 |
pq
i do not think it should matter who does the cooking , i think your mom just wants to be happy with her family all together.
So please, make your roast beef as planned.... and DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE tell Mom I told you this....just tell her you talked to me and I pushed for Roast Beef
what is the difference between you making roast beef or spagetti sauce 
if it were me, i would do it my way, and just enjoy the holiday. if brother is upset with your planning of the meal,,, let him be upset.
blessings for not letting him get to you
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| OhDear |
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Reply with quote | #3 |
He's getting something out of the status quo, like being waited on hand and foot and making you be the 'bad guy'. Has he always been this way? Has he always been the 'Special One'? What does his wife think? Has his personality and attitude changed since his marriage? Does he want the easy way out of things? as in: "If I don't acknowledge something I don't like, then it doesn't exist and I don't have to do anything about it."
Does he have any financial concerns and wants to 'preserve the inheritance' so vetos paid help?
Your brother doesn't want things to change. He doesn't want his parents to grow older and frail and need help. Soooooo if he decides they are doing things that active healthy people do, THEN they are not old and don't need help!
What I say to his 'don't tell anything what I told you...' is
FULL DISCLOSURE NO SECRETS!
You have to drag his attitude out into the open so everyone sees it. Do you have any non family members that could visit you and yours at your parents house and see how his 81 yo mother and sister are slaving away and he is sitting on his butt like the Grand Pooh Bah? If you could get him to verbalize his attitude in front of non family members it might make an impression.
I know, make him use your fathers FILTHY bathroom while he's visiting them!
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| I can relate |
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Reply with quote | #4 |
pq, please do not cry.
I have some input. See what helps, and ignore what does not help.
First of all, I can relate, my mom is the same way, does not want anyone coming in to clean/cook/etc - however - she is not doing it herself, or is too tired to do it. Her house is filthy too, on the border of insanitary. I try to clean (stealth cleaning) as much as I can, quietly. It is a losing battle tho because it just gets dirty again.
on the other hand, my mom is different from yours in that
one) she is not taking care of a very infirm husband (your dad) and two) when my mom gets tired and frustrated and is not feeling up to par, and I suggest having someone come in to help with stuff, she insists that she does not want strangers to help her, only her own family. But then, she does not want her own family to do it either. It is a very tough situation.
I really do think they feel like they can do it but they do not know their limitations any more. And sure thing, any thing we can do to try to help, but not tread over that very fine thin line of taking over, we try to do.
I am sorry your brother is not getting it. If he tried to help a little bit too, your mother may realize that she can no longer do all this herself and having a little help is nice.
Having written that, I do want to comment on the holiday festivities that are approaching. I understand what you and husband are attempting, with bringing the food. But also, you have to try to consider it from your mom's point of view too (and yes, I realize she is telling one story to you, a different story all together to your brother!). let's say you were run down for some reason, god forbid, and could not do all the normal things you do, but you knew you would still try. And let's say your brother and mother called and said "we are bringing everything, you just sit and relax." Could you ? You may feel a little strange about that. Well, maybe not the first time, but maybe if it was year after year ?
I am thinking, on this one issue, to let it go. If it makes your mom happy to do the cooking, let her. Ask her if you can come early and maybe help out, like maybe wash dishes. Explain that you are there to help her, not to take over, and not to do the cooking. I know you worry about the sanitary side of things. Trust me, I do too, at Mom's. I eat off of paper plates when I am there! Lol. But I am anal. Mom no longer uses dishwashing soap, she just rinses her plates. Needless to say, there is ick all over them. So far it has not made her ill. But I personally cannot afford to be ill, so I take precautions when I am at Mom's.
The thing I am thinking, is that it depresses your Mom to think that everyone thinks she is helpless. I do *not* agree with your brother's point of view that she should receive NO help. No, I totally disagree with that.
On the holiday, maybe. But the rest of the year, your mom needs help, there is no doubt about it.
I understand where your brother is coming from, but he is taking it to extremes. There is a point in time, when the younger adults have to recognize that mom and dad just aren't making it on their own anymore. They need an assist. That does not mean taking over. But some assistance. If only for sanitary reasons.
Sometimes at Mom's, I let things go. But eventually, it gets to me, and I cannot help myself, I drag out the vacuum and suck up all the dust balls that are all over the place. If mom squawks, then I just keep doing it, and say 'well, mom it is pretty filthy. I do not want you to get ill. You cannot afford to get ill.' I know they will argue and disagree and pout. Believe me - I know. But sometimes sanity has to rule the day, not an elderly's illusion of how things are.
I think you are doing fine with treading that fine line between trying to help, but not taking over. But with the holiday, maybe ease up, and let your mom have 'that one'. Know what I mean ? Now, if while you are there and it is obvious she is totally run down, just gently/lovingly, lol, say "Mom, I would love to help you, please let me. I hate to see you so tired and worn out. I want you to enjoy the day too."
I do not know if any of that would work. Lots of times it does not work with my mom. but, sometimes, it does. Because mom realizes how tired she is. I know it depresses her, makes her sad, but old age is reality. You know?
Please do not let this upset your holidays, and your husband's good cooking.
I also do not agree with your brother confiding all this to you, what your mother *really feels*, because that puts you in a real bind. How do you now back out and say 'mom I changed my mind, we are not bringing the sauce?' I mean, she will know that you and brother talked. Maybe ask your brother, who has all the answers (roll eyes) how that one should be handled ?
best wishes. It is a fine fine line.Trust me, I know!
I can relate
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| pq - goodwillgal |
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Reply with quote | #5 |
goodwillgal--
I probably didn't make myself clear: My brother and I both live hundreds of miles from our parents and will be driving long distance. I normally do the roast beef every year on Christmas Eve. This year, because he will be arriving late on Christmas EV(and at an uncertain hour; he does things on his own time and doesn't mind keeping everyone else waiting), I talked to Mom and suggested that we do the roast beef the day AFTER Christmas, and that husband and I do the spaghetti on Christmas Eve, since serving will be more flexible. This means husband and I would be cooking TWO meals while we're there instead of one.
ohdear--
Yes, brother is The Golden Child, and has always been a bully. From reading this discussion board, I have come to the revelation that he is probably a narcissist; the description certainly fits him and makes so much about him make sense. In terms of bringing this discussion out into the open, it only serves his purpose, as it upsets Mom and feeds into her desire to believe that everything is just fine the way it is, even though she is running herself down to bits. And he is perfectly fine with her being upset. I don't know if he's got an eye to their savings; I like to think no. I think he just likes to believe everything's great, and he can as long as nothing affects HIM personally. And especially since I got married and my husband comes for Christmas and cooks, it affects my brother because I think he thinks HE may not look as Golden, now that there's another male in the house and he actually DOES stuff.
I can relate--
You really do understand, and what you say makes sense. And I do recognize that Mom still needs and wants to be in charge, serve her family at the holidays, etc. BUT we had come up with this sharing of the cooking several years back and she's enjoyed it. She still does all the Christmas dinner (the oversized turkey with all the fixins, a zillion cakes and cookies that none of us should be eating, etc.) But even with what she allows us, she ends up worn out to exhaustion, and it is just miserable to watch. The last thing she needs is to take on MORE. And I should mention, too, that husband and I will be arriving the 23rd and leaving the 27th, while Brother and SIL will be arriving the 24th and staying all the way through New Year's. And during that time, my mom will be doing all her regular work, plus cooking breakfast daily for my brother, and cooking dinner or paying for carryout or for everyone to go out. And meantime my brother will lift not a finger.
Because we see each other so infrequently, the opportunities to help are very limited. I wish I could just drop by and vacuum the house or do laundry on any given day, but I can't.
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Reply with quote | #6 |
hi pq, I see, you are all a long distance away.
So any food prep would be done there, at your parent's house.
It is very frustrating, I am sure. I visit my mom about 5 times a year (more often if she is ill) and trying to keep her house inhabitable/liveable, seems so futile. If I visited once a year at the holidays, I am not sure I would even try! Especially if she were to get so upset about it. It is very worrying though.
If I were to stay at mom's house for a week or two, you betcha I would be trying to do some cleaning. And some cooking too. I totally understand.
I think there will come a day when your mom is going to be so worn down and exhausted that she will finally REALIZE, it is too much, "I need help." And then guess who is going to help her - probably you, not n-brother! (more rolling of eyes).
You just hate to watch the train wreck in motion, I know. The day is coming.
Stubborn elderly parents are the worst.Plus if Mom is saying one thing to you (accepting your cooking offers with enthusiasm) but then griping/crying to your brother about it over the phone? maybe she has some n-tendencies..as well?? not sure.
Try not to let it ruin your holidays, or all the days leading up to it. I know you do not want to step back and join in on the insanity, but some days, I feel like that is the only choice we have, when dealing with very very stubborn elderly parents.
I know the brother thing can be supremely annoying. They think they know everything. They are just clueless.
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| Mary E. |
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Hi pq,
I'm having a sibling relationship issue of my own right now, so I know how you're feeling - outraged and frustrated to the point of tears, yet sad.. Don't you just love it when our sibling presumes that he (in my case she) knows our parent better than we do?? How pompous they are that they have not only analyzed the dear mother, but tell us how WE should behave to not cause her pain and humiliation?
No wonder you are furious.. Your mother is so overworked for someone her age.. It does not take a person's dignity away when you offer to help them.. (Actually your situation with your mother having always done so much work around the house is NOT familiar to me. My mother always loved to be waited on and her "talent" was directing everyone to do the work  )
Your brother wants to do nothing and have your Mom wait on him and SIL as if they were in a bed and breakfast?? And he wants you and your dear husband (who sounds like a great cook) to also sit and be treated like guests? This is so misguided. I can't fathom adult children anywhere sitting and doing nothing while the elderly Mom waits on them hand and foot. It seems to me that in any and every culture the adult children contribute their personal skills and time to the community workload. Even ants and bees do this in the insect community. I'm sure animal communities - lions and coyotes and so on also contribute..
It seems that your brother's attitude lies in his denial that your Mom is aging.. It's so hard for us - who are realizing that aging and change are part of life - to see our siblings in denial. We know it's not even good for them, because they will be in shock when Mom passes away. Perhaps our indignation, frustration and anger lies in our disbelief that two siblings can think and feel so differently??
Would your mother ever go to bat for you and perhaps call your brother up and tell him that Christmas Eve dinner would be potluck? That you and your husband have agreed to bring sauce and that brother and SIL should bring another dish and that leftovers will be enjoyed and appreciated by all during the week?? That request coming from your mother, herself, will probably be the only thing that will bust your brother's bubble of arrogance about this issue.. If you try to tell him - he won't "get it", but if Mom does it, he will have to get it..
Same with me - my mother is going out to my sister's family to visit over Thanksgiving. No amount of my telling how disabled and aged she has become will sink in. She will show by her actions how she really is - this is the only thing that will sink in..
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| NGA |
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Reply with quote | #8 |
"" " Stubborn elderly parents are the worst.Plus if Mom is saying one thing to you (accepting your cooking offers with enthusiasm) but then griping/crying to your brother about it over the phone? maybe she has some n-tendencies..as well?? not sure. " I can relate
Right on the money. My stubborn Nmom does this. Agrees with me wholeheartedly then tells my siblings a completely different sob story. Since we are all on to it, it is less of a problem than it once was.
For I want to cry's problem, due to siblings living at a distance, a conference call could get to the root of a problem and get everyone on the same page considerably quicker than back and forth emails and phone calls.
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| seh |
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Reply with quote | #9 |
I think there's more to this story and this comes completely from an observer's point of view so don't beat me up. I think your mom tries very very hard to maintain appearances; that all is good with her and your dad. She's probably in fear and denial about the future and is afraid for anything to be different. She very well could have had that food conversation with your SIL; I know that my elderly mother tells all 3 of her children different stories and we only figure it out when we share it with each other. I know my mom does it out of her wanting to control her situation.
I would take a deep breath and just go with the flow. You can make your spaghetti dinner along with you mom's meal. If nothing else than your parents will have a well stocked refrigerator for after everyone has gone home.
Holidays are very stressful and sometimes traditions change. You know your brother better than I, and maybe he is manipulating the situation, but in the end, do you really want to focus on him at this time of year or would you rather just let if roll off your shoulders and enjoy your parents and the time together?
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| Sparkle |
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Reply with quote | #10 |
Wow-I don't know if I'm the only one who feels this way, but I thought your brother's note was horrid!!! He came across like a know it all jerk, and his snide remark about "mom's fabulous sauce" versus your husband's was just plain ugly.
I would go ahead with the plans you and your mom made, and to heck with him. He is so inconsiderate that he can't even arrive at a decent dinner hour for your parents, so what right does he have to plan the menu?  Let him heat up a plate of whatever when he gets there.
I am offended by his pompous remarks, and I'm not even related!  You were so kind in your note about getting excited about Christmas, and he was a rat in his response.
So do whatever you want, and to heck with him! Big hugs, as I have a brother that's a jerk also! Sparkle
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| I can relate |
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Sparkle, you are right, he did certainly come across as a know it all and pompous
especially
"and I know this is coming from the fact that you guys take over.." -- really? How does he know ? for a fact? Notice he did not say that "mom said this". He just knows.
right.
sounds to me like Mom was going to really enjoy some of those meatballs.
It also sounds to me like Mom is spinning a different story to brother (perhaps) and to all around her.
pq, can you just talk with Mom and say "Mom, in no way shape or form do I want to take over, or keep you from cooking, or try to imply in *any way* that your cooking is bad now, or not up to par. I just thought it would be fun to make the sauce and meatballs, and husband did too, and it makes us feel like we are helping out as well. That's all. So please tell me how you really feel, it will not hurt our feelings, and we certainly do not want to hurt your feelings."
dunno.
if mom figures out that brother said something to you, oh well. He DID say something to you. That is reality. Let brother get mad, who cares!!
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| john |
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Reply with quote | #12 |
PQ, I agree with OH DEAR about full disclosure. I have had issues with my brother and "shielded" my parents in the past.
No more. When he does something out of line, they know about it. It worked out quite well. I thought I was doing everyone a favor by keeping it internal to me(like you're doing) and doing a slow burn about it.
Now everyone is on the same page, better for my parents and better for me.
Since your all far away can you do a three way phone call and everyone discuss the plans for Christmas?
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| Lizzie42 |
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Reply with quote | #13 |
I think "I can relate" is right on target. Anytime someone tells me what someone else is thinking and/or saying, and then says "but don't say I told you so" it's a red flag to me that they're making it up as they go along. The idea of an open and loving conversation with your mom seems to me to be the right way to go, with emphasis put by you on how you don't want to impose on her when you know she's so awfully busy and how it gives you such pleasure to be able to help her, if only for a few days. Honestly, her schedule would have killed off a much younger person by now!
If golden brother then takes another try at you, tell him you've talked to mom again, and it's all fixed up. If he declares that she won't tell you the truth, then tell him that the arrangements are made and it's between you and mom. If mom objects to him again, he should tell her to talk to you directly. Otherwise it's just tale-carrying, and heaven knows, we're all just too old for kindergarten.
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| Olivia |
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Reply with quote | #14 |
Hi pq,
If no one can agree exactly what to do, then buy Christmas dinner at your local supermarket or restaurant on Christmas Eve. Nobody cooks. Don't ask your brother. Let your mom know you decided no one cooks, so everyone has more time to spend together enjoying themselves. If brother howls, tell him to cook the food himself.
O.
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| sierraseven |
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Reply with quote | #15 |
pq, my blood is just boiling at your brother's behavior! And thinking of him and his wife staying through New Year's with your elderly mother waiting on them while still trying to take care of your father! GRRRRR!
I know that sometimes an elder like your Mom will be afraid to have help come in, especially anyone not family, because they are afraid their loved one will be forcibly taken away from them and institutionalized if they can't take care of them all by themselves - is there a chance your Mom has this fear, and that's why she doesn't want help?
I just keep thinking - 81 years old, and trying to handle all that herself! Maybe you can gently get across to her that it's not the best thing for your Dad, for her to keep trying to do it all herself. What if she should fall, and not be able to get help? Sooner or later, she will exhaust herself - she just HAS to get help, before it reaches that point. It's not safe for your Dad to have her working herself to death. I know she doesn't want to admit she can't do it herself - but jeez, if she had some home-care help, she would be able to spend some time with your Dad, just hold his hand and enjoy some of the time they have left together.
I just want to slap your brother - and I don't even know him. But anyone that would let his elderly mother work herself to a frazzle like that, and not help, is an unprintable unmentionable expletive! |
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