| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #1 |
Earlier this week, I made the decision to not invite my very toxic mother to Thanksgiving. Every year, I invite her and every year, she declines. She always decides to spend it with my oldest brother, and since I'm not into being rejected again this year, I decided to not even ask her.
Having said that, I know she will be disappointed that I did not ask. She will feel rejected and be hurt that she did not get the chance to say no to me.
Do I care? Yes. Why? Because I am afraid of her.
Here's why:
My younger brother cut contact with my mother this summer. Since then she has done everything in her power to punish him. She has left numerous threatening phones calls on all his phones. She had tried to have his kids taken away from him. She has called everyone he knows (his in-laws, his friends, his kids' nannies, his boss, his kids' doctors, his kids' schools) to badmouth him.
When that didn't get her any attention, she decided to try a new tactic. She let him know this week that she is now planning to sue him for "grandparent rights". She claims she has retained a lawyer and is going to see him one way or another.
My brother is not worried about this. He lives several states away and has lots of resources to fight her. It really scares me, though. This is one of the reasons why I fear going no-contact. I don't think she would accept it.
Anyway, regarding Thanksgiving, I know it's best for my own sanity to not invite her, but I will likely get punished if I don't ask her. If I go ahead and invite her, it's like I'm giving her persmission to abuse me again.
Is there a solution I'm missing?
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| ESQ |
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Reply with quote | #2 |
Hi Spoltchy, here is an idea- tell her you are volunteering at a soup kitchen and/or food pantry for Thanksgiving. Do it, even for half an hour and invite her to join you. dollars to donuts, she will never come and you are off the hook.
I have done it, and have enjoyed it so very much that I look forward to it every time.
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| Txsongbird |
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Guilt is a horrible thing that we humans go through each and every day of our lives. I did the no contact with my Brother and he was mean and it didn't end well. However, he did not threaten me or is he harrassing me by phone or mail.
If I had ever deciced to go no contact with my Mother, it would be hard on me as I was the child in the family who was expected to fix everything wrong. Guilt can eat us up and make us so ill. I know you feel bad, but hopefully she will have Thanksgiving with your Brother and leave you alone. In the end it is what is best for you and your family. If she is so toxic that she upends everything good, then it is probably best to leave her out of your celebration. I know this must be a very trying time for you.
Donna
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| Alinka |
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Hi, Splotchy,
I think I remember when you posted about your mother and brother.
When NF was alive, his and NM's Thanksgiving was to go to the most elaborate hotel buffet they could find. When I was not guilted into entertaining them that is.
One year my husband just could not deal with having them here. We made plans for a very different Thanksgiving which was a non-denominational prayer peace vigil which included donations of non perishable food and followed by a communal vegetarian dinner.
In other words, the complete antithesis to NP's. So, that year we were free.
If you are sure your mother will not come, maybe extending the invitation will bring about the least harmful consequences for you:
Quote: She will feel rejected and be hurt that she did not get the chance to say no to me.
So then she can imagine she was wanted and that she had the power to hurt and reject. At least that is how my NM frames things.
BTW, I am afraid of my NM too. No matter what logic says about it, it is a gut feeling and it is genuine. I believe the body does not lie.
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Thanks for your responses. I like your idea of volunteering, ESQ, but my mom would still be annoyed that I didn't invite her to dinner. I could try it and see...
Txsongbird, I think I'm more fearful than guilty. I'm trying to stop the madness in my family, but I'm not really strong enough. Thanks for your support.
Alinka, I am never sure WHAT my mom will do. My oldest brother told me that she invited him and my aunts to go out to dinner with her. (She may have invited my second-oldest brother as well, but I haven't spoken to him.) I'm sure she's waiting for me to invite her, so she can tell me that she has other plans that exclude me. That's usually what happens.
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| Cathy Howat |
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Reply with quote | #6 |
On the lighter side you could always try the horse's head in the bed!
Seriously, why not OK that's IT mom, NO-MORE-CONTACT, get an ex-directory number and be prepared to ride out the storm. She can only have the power over her you give her. It's a lesson I learned with my own N-parents long ago, thankfully, they are both gone
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| Saturngoddess |
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Splotchy,
I feel for you but she isn't worth your worry. I wouldn't worry about Grandparent's rights - my ex-MIL mentioned that to me a long time ago - I told her that my son had 3 sets of grandparents - so when exactly between her visit, her son's obligatory time, and the other 2 set of grandparent's visiting did she think she was actually going to get to see him ? She dropped that so fast - sometimes bullies just want to bully to see how far they can go.
I also like the volunteering thing - she won't go for that. Can she drive? Doesn't she have health problems? I'd like to see her try to get rights to your younger brother's kids..
My preferred method is NO CONTACT - as Cathy said - she can only have the power you give over her..
Good luck..
Laura |
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Thank you Cathy and Saturngoddess. You both are right. I know I need to cut contact with her. I'm just simply afraid to do it.
I'm afraid of what she'll do, I'm afraid of how other people will treat me, I'm afraid of what this will do to my other family relationships, and I'm afraid that I will be abandoning a very mentally-ill woman who really does need someone to watch over her.
Based on the contact my brother's doctors have had with her, they suspect that my mom is a sociopath. I'm going to have to read up on that. My brother's doctors have told him to avoid her at all costs. He is a recovering alcoholic and a recovering cancer survivor, and his doctors really feel that she is detrimental to his recovery. He lives several states away, though, so it is easier for him to say good-bye.
I live a half-hour away from her. Just this week, she showed up at my church (which she has never, ever done before) and introduced herself to my new pastor. I was completely freaked out when he told me.
I am not sure how to proceed. I will take all your kind words into consideration. Thank you.
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| Dustygirl01 |
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Wow...that's too much...she's going to sue for grandparents rights? All your brother has to do is request a psych. evaluation on her and they'll laugh her right out of court and probably slap her with a restraining order while they're at it.
Being fearful of narcs. is normal. They're bullies and very manipulative. I'm sorry you live so close to her. I consider them predators. Maybe you could one day consider moving closer to your brother?
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| Splotchy |
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Reply with quote | #10 |
My mom is a predator, dusty, but a very sly and cunning one. She has most people fooled.
I just started reading some things about sociopaths on-line this morning, and the descriptions seem to fit her. It's pretty scary, actually. One of things they apparently do is get their victims to feel bad for them. Unlike narcissists, sociopaths don't have a conscience. They can mimic very well, so they often appear "normal". Sociopaths have no feelings at all, not even for themselves, whereas Ns do have feelings, but only for themselves. Sociopaths deliberately try to hurt others, whereas Ns hurt others as a by-product of trying to focus on themselves.
From what I've read, you can be both a sociopath and a narcissist, so it's often hard to tell the difference. Most people with personality disorders don't get help, but since my mom contacted my brother's doctors as part of her badmouthing campaign, they have been able to see her behavior firsthand. Plus, he has been saving all of her nasty voicemail messages.
Everything I've read suggests that it's bad to confront a sociopath. It only makes the "game" more interesting for them. Anyway, thanks for your support.
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| Dustygirl01 |
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Yes, I know there's some overlap between N's and psychopaths/sociopaths. Wow. Well...keep doing your research and it'll help you to figure out the best way to deal with her.
I agree with not confronting her...I don't even think you should confront a narc...unless you're on the way out the door to no contact.
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| Prodigal |
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Reply with quote | #12 |
Hi Splotchy,It totally scares me that I understand your dilemma. Try explaining to anyone halfway normal who hasn't had the pleasure of being 'owned' body and soul by such a parent ... try explaining that you are afraid of what your mother will do to you if you deny her an opportunity she is expecting in order to reject and/or hurt you. Most people would say, "HUH?!"
But I get it. Your mother absolutely expects you to seek after her and flatter her and offer yourself up to her -- or else. Even if she feels like kicking you to the curb emotionally (as usual) for all your trouble, she will feel insulted and neglected and, yes, probably vengeful if you do not present yourself for traditional holiday abuse of some kind. So you have to calculate which will be worse -- the usual poke in the eye with a sharp stick ... or the awful possibility of actually getting stuck with her at Thanksgiving ... or the retaliation against you if Mommie Dearest's queenly presence isn't even requested. I mean, how DARE you?!
It's a gamble. There's pain and destruction behind Doors A, B and C ... but at what level? Opening one door will release a swarm of hungry mosquitoes, choosing another door will set free a springing cobra, and behind the third door the monster from the movie "Alien" is dripping acidic saliva.
We should start a game show for children of toxic parents. Instead of "The Price is Right," we'll call it "The Price is Too High." Or instead of "Let's Make a Deal," we'll name it "Let's Make a Deal with the Devil." Instead of "Family Feud" ... "Family Feudal Rule." And of course, "Survivor: Parent" and " EXTREME Jeopardy"are good too. We could even have our own "Amazing Race" where adult children are chased around the globe by their determined and relentless toxic parents. Any other suggestions?
For what it's worth, here's what I would do. Invite her for Thanksgiving and pray that you get her usual disparaging "no." If by some horror she does accept, get 'sick' and cancel. You will hardly be the first person who was forced to have an underground family celebration that had to be kept secret from a toxic relative who would have otherwise ruined it. Crazy and sad and just the way life goes when you can't find a way to escape one of these characters.
Yeah, I agree, don't make her mad if you don't have to. Especially if you're planning on remaining within close range. When I 'joke' about going 'no contact' only when I'm prepared to change my name, burn off my fingerprints with acid and leave the country for some remote locale ... I'm not completely joking. For the record. |
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| angst |
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Reply with quote | #13 |
For the immediate problem, can you simply bring up in conversation how she must be looking forward to spending Thanksgiving with your brother? No invite from you, just a simple acknowledgement of her familiar plans.
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| NGA-Prodigal |
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Reply with quote | #14 |
Prodigal,
As usual you are incredibly witty and remarkably sane considering what you have had to deal with all these years
How about "Are you smarter than a Sociopath?"
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| Prodigal - NGA |
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Reply with quote | #15 |
How about "Are you smarter than a Sociopath?"
Gee, NGA, now that's funny. Thanks for the laugh! |
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