sue, i haven't seen you reply since your first post so i hope you will read this. i was under the assumption that we all agree here to disagree, but if we do dsagree we speak with respect to the other person. whether we can personally identify with the problem of the other their problem is every bit as real and painful as our own and we are here to support each other in times of pain and confusion. sue, i don't know the answer for you, i hope you find to offer you the support you seek, in the meantime, welcome. vent if you need to. a lot of us are so frustrated, we know what we want, we now what we don't want but we really don't know how to make it happen. you say you do EVERYTHING for you dad, can you go into more detail of what that means and does dad live wit you or alone. your life/career have gone down the toilet. tell us more. anyway, i am here to listen if you need someone. i have seen the devastation of alcoholism. i can't say i understand since we are all different but i have a clue, many of us do. tell us more. thanks. hang in there.